Author Topic: set-aside ability  (Read 2288 times)

Offline sepjazzwarrior

  • Trade Count: (+30)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2283
  • The best defense is a fast offense
    • -
    • Midwest Region
set-aside ability
« on: May 22, 2017, 08:17:31 AM »
0
If a card's ability is activated then set aside, does it still work?  Like if you set aside a territory class hero or EC with magic charms on it, can you still use the ability on those cards?  Thanks

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2017, 08:43:31 AM »
+1
Negative, since set aside is out of play. TCCs or cards in general cannot work while in set aside (unless there's an ability on the card that specifically says it can work while set-aside, such as Alexandrian Ship or Noah's Ark, etc.).
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 10:02:58 AM »
0
I believe an Artifact that is activated and set aside will still work since Artifacts can be active in Set Aside area (Pitch & Gopher Wood).

However, Territory Class characters are only active in territory and battle.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 10:33:22 AM »
0
I believe an Artifact that is activated and set aside will still work since Artifacts can be active in Set Aside area (Pitch & Gopher Wood).

However, Territory Class characters are only active in territory and battle.

But Pitch and Gopher Wood specifically works while in set-aside.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 10:57:03 AM »
0
As long as Magic Charms was activated previous to the magician being set aside it will remain active.

Once that player's preparation phase comes around, Magic Charms would be deactivated from that magician.

Note that it cannot be activated on a magician who is already set aside.

Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

kariusvega

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 11:42:08 AM »
0
Do placed territory class enhancements continue to work if placed then the character it's placed on is set aside?

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
+1
As long as the condition is true (i.e. "Place on a Hero: ") then they continue to work.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2017, 12:10:17 PM »
0
Sorry but I'm still not understanding why MC or any other type of artifact (like Wool Fleece on Gideon in set aside) would still work when it is out of play.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2017, 12:29:06 PM »
0
Because they were activated in play.

An artifact set aside by Samaritan Water Jar would not work because it was never activated, but Magic Charms was activated and is still in a location where artifacts can be active.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2017, 12:49:24 PM »
0
ok I see what you're saying but why would it be deactivated on that player's next prep phase if it was still in set aside?
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2017, 02:19:02 PM »
0
When a card refers to or targets a card by name (such as Pitch and Gopher Wood or Prince of the Air), it can target that card in set aside area.

Since Magic Charms does not refer to a card by name (only by identifier), it can only be activated on a Magician in play. Since artifacts reactivate in prep phase, Magic Charms would not be able to activate on a Magician who was still set aside.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 02:22:23 PM »
+1
When a card refers to or targets a card by name (such as Pitch and Gopher Wood or Prince of the Air), it can target that card in set aside area.

This seems like it's pretty important information. Is this written anywhere besides ruler questions?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 02:52:56 PM »
0
When a card refers to or targets a card by name (such as Pitch and Gopher Wood or Prince of the Air), it can target that card in set aside area.

This seems like it's pretty important information. Is this written anywhere besides ruler questions?

I agree. If this came up in a tournament I would have ruled that the artifact couldn't work since it's in set aside. So this is an important rule to be added to the REG, or just simplified to be that even though it activated in territory it could not remain active in set aside.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2017, 03:15:04 PM »
0
While I grant that rule should be codified (if it isn't already, I haven't fully checked), that isn't really the issue.

The main issue is that the default condition is that special abilities don't "turn off" when they are set aside after being previously activated.

If you rescue with Moses (WA) and I set him aside with Two Possessed by Demons (assume it's been made CBP somehow), Moses' FBTN ability doesn't "turn off" just because he was set aside. It's the exact same way with Magic Charms.

TC characters "turn off" if they go from territory to set aside because that is how they were designed to function from the beginning.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 03:45:01 PM »
0
+1

TC characters "turn off" if they go from territory to set aside because that is how they were designed to function from the beginning.

Which is also defined in the REG under Territory Class Character.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2017, 03:52:27 PM »
0
I understand about TC characters because they have to be in territory for their ability to work, but if a card is set aside and is now out of play, in my mind, regarding how abilities are active in play but not in set aside (unless the card is specifically worded to work in set aside), just because it was activated before being set aside doesn't mean it should work while in set aside as it is now out of play. It seems contradictory to how "in play" abilities work vs. cards that are now out of play and no longer default to being in play. I'm not the one who makes the rules--you guys do--but this is just my two cents regarding this topic. It just simplifies things when card abilities no longer work when put out of play no matter when the abilities were activated.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2017, 04:05:44 PM »
0
Sorry but I completely disagree that it would simplify things. It would be inconsistent to say that a Hero (whose ability activated in battle) who is then set aside (or discarded or shuffled) has their ability remain in effect, but for some reason an Artifact's ability turns off.

I am not "making" this ruling. I am applying the rules that are already in place to the scenario that was described by the OP.

Quote
regarding how abilities are active in play but not in set aside (unless the card is specifically worded to work in set aside)

This is not a rule--I'm not sure where you're getting this.

Quote
It seems contradictory to how "in play" abilities work vs. cards that are now out of play and no longer default to being in play.

Cards do not have to be "in play" to work. Perhaps you're confusing this with the default for targeting being cards in play?
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: set-aside ability
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 07:26:03 PM »
0
I was under the impression that you weren't entirely sure if this issue was in the REG or not or how it worked based upon your first post when you said "I believe" and when you said it may not be codified. What I was saying was that if this was not codified THEN it may be simpler to have the rule be that cards won't work when placed into set aside. But you also mentioned how certain cards would work if set aside so if that's the rule in the REG then that's the rule. I was simply expressing what my thoughts were and what I personally think about this particular topic. But again, ultimately my opinion doesn't matter if this is the current rule and the rule functionally works well.

As for the last statement you quoted, yes I was thinking about the default targeting of cards being in play. Obviously my statement was inaccurate.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal