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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: TechnoEthicist on March 18, 2013, 10:48:36 AM

Title: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: TechnoEthicist on March 18, 2013, 10:48:36 AM
I couldn't remember if this was confirmed or not, but can Seraph and Seraphim be in play at the same time, aka is it theoretically possible to have 6 Isaiah angels in play in T2 in your territory (Seraph with Live Coal, Seraph, and 4 Seraphim?) I am pretty sure it was ruled not but wanted to verify.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Chris on March 18, 2013, 10:51:42 AM
Seraph and Seraphim are considered the same card, so you can only have four of them total in your deck. However, they're generic, so you can have all four of them in play at the same time. Angel of His Presence is also generic, and you can have four of them in play as well. Seraph with a Live Coal is unique, so you  can only have one of him, leaving a total for potentially nine Isaiah angels in play at the same time. I'm about 95% sure this is the case.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Professoralstad on March 18, 2013, 11:04:23 AM
Actually, Seraph with a Live Coal is unique, but Seraphim (band to Blue) is generic. So if you wanted to, you could have 12 Isaiah angels by using 4x Seraph/im (to Green/Prophet), 4x Seraphim (to Blue) and 4x AoHP. Obviously SwaLC is probably worth having over the band to Blue in mosts cases (they are the same card for deckbuilding, but LC is unique and band to blue is generic).
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 18, 2013, 11:13:25 AM
You can have 3x Seraphim (band to Blue) and 1x Seraph with a Live Coal though, in addition to the 4x Angel of his Presence and the other Seraphim x4. So still 12, but a better option.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Gabe on March 18, 2013, 11:14:11 AM
Also note that Seraph (RoA) is unique so you can only have one copy of that card in play at a time.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Chris on March 18, 2013, 11:18:10 AM
Also note that Seraph (RoA) is unique so you can only have one copy of that card in play at a time.

This thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/seraph-and-seraphim-confusion/msg466332/#msg466332) came to a separate conclusion, and it makes zero sense for Seraphs to be unique anyway.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Professoralstad on March 18, 2013, 11:26:59 AM
I agree with Chris (and myself on that thread).
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: TechnoEthicist on March 18, 2013, 11:31:02 AM
That's where I thought we were with that thread (no conclusion) which was why I decided to bring it up again :P.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Gabe on March 18, 2013, 12:02:57 PM
Whether it makes sense or not, it's the way the card was printed and the current ruling. I was not directly involved with the printing of RoA so I can't say how the play testers of that era came to their conclusion.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: Chris on March 18, 2013, 01:41:13 PM
Whether it makes sense or not, it's the way the card was printed and the current ruling.

Well then, maybe we have the opportunity to change that ruling.

Quote from: Isaiah 6:2
Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.

The first part of the verse isn't "above him were the seraphim, it's just "above him were seraphim". I think this implies that there are more than just the ones described in this verse, which would definitely make Seraph (RoA) generic, not unique.
Title: Re: Seraph and Seraphim, just how many Isaiah angels can be in play at once?
Post by: The Guardian on March 18, 2013, 01:45:18 PM
A discussion on unique/generic guidelines is underway on the playtester side.
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