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Author Topic: Self indirect negate.  (Read 1946 times)

Offline SomeKittens

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Self indirect negate.
« on: April 06, 2011, 04:21:17 PM »
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I block with Egyptian Charioteers + Horses.  I draw two, one of which is Mask of Fear (FBTN).  I use my play next to play mask, negating my ability to draw it.  Naturally, infinite loops are frowned upon, so how is this one solved?  Could I conceivably play Mask this turn, and again later?
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 04:35:39 PM »
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Mask + your card goes back and it's BBTN.

(I hope. I'm always terrible at rules)
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browarod

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 04:40:04 PM »
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Battle by the numbers always sticks regardless of where the card with the ability ends up (banding in Moses/CotH is another example) unless the BTN ability is negated by a CBN/CBP card. Mask of Fear doesn't negate itself, just all other abilities, so even though it returns to deck (as ridiculous as I think that ruling is), its ability remains active.

Or so I believe is the case.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 04:43:04 PM »
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Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 06, 2011, 04:35:39 PM
Mask + your card goes back and it's BBTN.

(I hope. I'm always terrible at rules)

This is correct.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 04:45:43 PM »
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Nice.  Now if only I could think up some way to abuse this.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 09:53:57 PM »
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Mask stays because you can't interrupt(negate after the fact) the playing of an enhancement.  Other cards go back and it is battle by the numbers.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 09:58:49 PM »
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Quote from: Kor on April 06, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
Mask stays because you can't interrupt(negate after the fact) the playing of an enhancement.  Other cards go back and it is battle by the numbers.

That's what I would think. 
Quote from: browarod on April 06, 2011, 04:40:04 PM
Battle by the numbers always sticks regardless of where the card with the ability ends up (banding in Moses/CotH is another example) unless the BTN ability is negated by a CBN/CBP card. Mask of Fear doesn't negate itself, just all other abilities, so even though it returns to deck (as ridiculous as I think that ruling is), its ability remains active.

I think the ruling is that the BTN card can't negate itself, so if Moses is banded in the BTN sticks even though Moses doesn't, however if Jacob bands in Captain of the Host and is blocked by 12 Fingered Giant, Captain gets kicked out and its NOT a battle by the numbers because it wasn't Captains ability that negated the band.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 10:03:51 PM »
+1
Quote from: Kor on April 06, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
Mask stays because you can't interrupt(negate after the fact) the playing of an enhancement.  Other cards go back and it is battle by the numbers.
Not this again. This has got to be the #1 most misunderstood rule, it seems like every single thread someone's making this mistake.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2011, 10:04:34 PM »
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You can't directly negate it.  It can still be indirectly negated, however.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 10:13:33 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 06, 2011, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: Kor on April 06, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
Mask stays because you can't interrupt(negate after the fact) the playing of an enhancement.  Other cards go back and it is battle by the numbers.
Not this again. This has got to be the #1 most misunderstood rule, it seems like every single thread someone's making this mistake.

Really?  In the REG it seemed pretty clear to me, am I missing something?

Instant Special Abilities > Play Next Enhancement
Default Conditions
•      You cannot interrupt initiative to play a card once it has been played. Once the next card is played, you cannot interrupt the numerical initiative, nor initiative by special ability (play next enhancement) to play that card.
•      The ability to play an enhancement cannot be interrupted.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 10:20:58 PM »
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You can't negate initiative, but you can negate drawing. There are three different abilities on ITB/Draw/Play cards.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 10:22:36 PM »
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Quote from: SomeKittens on April 06, 2011, 10:04:34 PM
It can still be indirectly negated, however.

Does this have to do with the ruling that if Philly Outpost searchs for a philly, discards it, brings it to your territory, you block w/ it and they play Helmet o' Salvation, the character is sent back to the deck? Is this correct?
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Offline Kor

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 02:33:59 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 06, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
You can't negate initiative, but you can negate drawing. There are three different abilities on ITB/Draw/Play cards.

But I was under the impression that something that can't be interrupted can't be indirectly interrupted either.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Self indirect negate.
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 03:10:28 PM »
+1
Nothing was ever attempting to negate the initiative.
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