Cactus Game Design Message Boards

When there are more than 2 players, and a player draws the Hopper as part of the initial draw, when must the target be chosen?  It must be chosen when drawn.  However, there is drawing being done by all players at that moment, and therefore 'simultaneous' playing and replacing of Lost Souls.

This discussion could also apply to events caused by all-draw abilities, like The Generous Widow or Rejoice, but as the initial draw happens every game, it is the most pressing example.

The reason why this is important involves the great advantage going first, or closest to first, provides.  Knowing how many souls each player has drawn and will eventually draw when all replacements are made is incredibly important, so whether the Hopper must be placed in another player's LoB at that moment, stopping your replacements (or conceivably all players') momentarily is a major point to decide.

I posit that no Lost Soul ability may be inserted into the drawing of cards, whether that is the initial draw for all players or due to an ability, and therefore all souls, including Hopper, are placed in the drawing player's LoB until all players have drawn all cards, replacing souls.  Then, and only then, do all soul abilities trigger, and Hopper's target is chosen.

The real question, if I am correct, is in what order do the soul abilities activate.  That is, if all players in a multi draw Hoppers, who gets to activate first?  Particularly in the first draw, when you have no 'current player' or turn order that you could use as a default, this is an important question.

So, lots of fun questions, who has thoughts?

I've always played where everyone draws 8 and if you draw the Hopper in there you just hold on to it until everyone is finished drawing.

I would also agree with Chris that whoever drew the most souls could place their Hopper first or they could decide who places their Hopper first if we wanted to play it that way. I think that usually if two people draw Hoppers then if one person puts it one place the other will put it in another and vice versa if the other places first. It doesn't always seem to make a whole lot of difference to me at least.

There are also other components to be considered.

For example, does the Revealer go off before Hopper?  If controlled by the same player?  If controlled by different players?  Who makes the decision?

I agree with the posts thus far that there should be a way to determine who has their souls activate first when there is conflict, but there is not a current rule on that in general.

Again, I'd say that players choose Lost Soul order as Chris said and then each individual player activates their Lost Souls in the order they drew them.

To give some perspective, let's say that four players are playing multi and in the first 8:
Player A draws the Hopper, then the Revealer, and then another
Player B draws the Hopper
Player C draws the Revealer and two other souls
Player D draws the Revealer and then Hopper

Since Players A and C drew the most souls they each roll dice/rock-paper-scissors and Player A wins. Player A would then choose who activates their souls first Player A chooses Player B, sitting to A's left, to activate first. The order of LS activation would go as follows: Player B's Hopper, Player C's Revealer, Player D's Revealer, Player D's Hopper, Player A's Hopper, and finally, Player A's Revealer.

The situation would be pretty circumstantial and probably would involve this many Hoppers/Revealers but it's certainly possible and this seems  to me like it would be the most logical solution, however criticisms and new ideas altogether are certainly welcome.