Author Topic: Second Seal/Wool Fleece  (Read 955 times)

Offline Josh

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Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« on: April 08, 2014, 12:15:22 PM »
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Inspired by a quote from an old thread, which was linked recently:

In case anyone is wondering, he got three freebies, he made one awesome rescue (Second Seal and Wool Fleece) and one "only in Booster" rescue (Wrestling with God to get his opponent's random red enhancement (Book of the Wars) and A Roman Soldier's Faith to win by numbers.

Does this work? 

General Description
A band ability brings a character into battle to assist another character that is already in the battle.
 
How to Play
Banding an opponent's character into battle causes you to take control of that character until the character leaves battle.
A band ability is instantaneous. A band abilities target the cards that are to be brought into battle.


If SS is played preblock, is it still prevented by WF?  After all, no evil character is in battle to be "assisted".  And based on the "How to Play" above, when SS brings in my opponent's ECs, I control them, since I banded them into battle.

And WF's ability has outdated text.  What should the card actually be?  "ECs are prevented from banding"?  Then SS brings 'em in.  "Banding abilities used by ECs are prevented"?  SS still brings in the ECs.

Second Seal - "All of holder's Heroes in play and all of opponent's Evil Characters in play must join the battle."

Wool Fleece - "No evil characters may band."
If creation sings Your praises so will I
If You gave Your life to love them so will I

browarod

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Re: Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2014, 02:07:46 PM »
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Wool Fleece, I believe, is considered a prevent (even though it's worded like a protect). I believe the functional effect would then be: "Prevent abilities that band Evil Characters." With that in mind, I would actually rule that Wool Fleece would prevent Second Seal entirely and no banding would happen. Second Seal targets the Heroes and Evil Characters for the same band ability, it's not separate bands, so if the EC banding portion is prevented then so is the Hero banding portion.

There's also the possibility that Wool Fleece's functional effect would be: "Prevent evil banding abilities." I disagree with this interpretation because WF specifies "Evil Characters", but if this is the case then Second Seal would remain unaffected by WF and would band both alignments since it's a good banding ability.

Either way I don't see an option for only banding the Heroes into battle if WF is a prevent (unless the Evil Characters have protection from somewhere else such as Wall of Protection).

:2cents:

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 04:53:01 PM »
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Wool Fleece is indeed a prevent, and it prevents abilities from banding Evil Characters into battle (which I believe has been fairly consistent for awhile now).

So while I understand browarod's point, I disagree.  The Second Seal bands in heroes, and it bands in evil characters.  The entire ability (or both parts) is not prevented by Wool Fleece, only the component that would add EC is.

The play described is legal (and awesome).

browarod

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Re: Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 05:00:57 PM »
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I'm wondering how you see it as 2 abilities (or even 1 ability with 2 parts)? The ability has a target (all Heroes and all Evil Characters) and an action (must join the battle, or "band"), that seems like 1 ability with 1 set of parts to me. Unless I'm missing something?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 05:18:36 PM »
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It specifically targets two different groups in the ability, and therefore there are two components to the ability.  If the ability said something along the lines of "all characters join the battle," perhaps there would be a different argument to be had.  As it is, Second Seal bands in heroes of one player, and it bands in EC of another player.  Separate.

browarod

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Re: Second Seal/Wool Fleece
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 05:26:46 PM »
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I get that it targets 2 groups, but that's still one set of targets so I don't see how that makes it separate. The fact that it clarifies what characters are being banded in doesn't, to me, seem to indicate separate abilities but just separate parts of the targeting.

 


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