Author Topic: Samuel again (Read 4289 times)

Master KChief · « **on:** September 06, 2011, 10:47:37 PM »

can samuel band to king david? king david is a 1 samuel hero in the REG, but the reference is not on the card.

Samuel (RA2)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Green/Yellow • Ability: 4 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate play abilities. You may search deck for King Saul or David and put it in play to draw 2. May band to a male I Samuel Hero. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Judge, Prophet • Verse: I Samuel 7:16-17 • Availability: Rock of Ages Extended booster packs (None)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2011, 10:52:43 PM »

Either the answer is "For now, yes" or "The new REG cannot be trusted any more than the old REG."

Arch Angel · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2011, 10:56:08 PM »

I thought this would be ruled the same way as Matthew with AoCP. No reference, so nothing on the card to say "this is a 1 samuel hero!"

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:04:29 PM »

If AoCP still has a reference in the new REG, then I would actually rule that Matthew can recur it.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:17:52 PM »

SNAP! Ill go check...

Authority of Christ (P)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard all Evil Characters in play. May not be interrupted, negated, or prevented. • Play As: Discard all Evil Characters in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 8:27 • Availability: Promotional cards (2001 National Tournament)

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:19:43 PM »

Special ability entries were updated in the "new REG". Definitions were updated in the "new REG". To the best of my knowledge, individual card entries were not updated in the "new REG". Thus there are still several "play as" that are inaccurate because they are errata.

Master KChief · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:27:19 PM »

matthew specifically looks for a card with a matthew reference. samuel does not say reference. does this make a difference?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:28:54 PM »

With all the efforts to shorten SA's, I think it's the same thing.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:35:06 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on September 06, 2011, 11:27:19 PM

matthew specifically looks for a card with a matthew reference. samuel does not say reference. does this make a difference?

I believe it would make a difference if David had been King at all in I Samuel. If that were the case, I would probably rule that Samuel could band to King David, just like he could band to a converted Goliath, even though Goliath has a reference from I Sammuel.

However, the reference given to KD by the REG is the reference on his other cards, and would likely not have been the reference given to him were he to be printed today, since he wasn't made King until II Samuel. That is why I would have to rule that Samuel can't band to King David.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:38:45 PM »

If we're making rulings on how cards would have been printed, can we have a working Split Altar plz?

Master KChief · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:40:47 PM »

are we ruling cards based on what they should be or what they are? split alter has to be ruled upon fairly based on wording for worse. is it not right to rule this card fairly just the same, even if the mistake results in something for better?

edit: instaposted.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:57:04 PM »

The difference is that the "references" given by the REG should not be there: cards with no reference on the physical card should remain cards with no reference, as was discussed in the Matthew/AoCP discussion. However, even cards with no references (or misspelled references, like Goliath) could still be considered to have book/testament based identifiers, such that AoCP should be ruled an NT enhancement, Samson should be ruled an OT Hero, and if I had to rule, King David would be a II Samuel Hero. The fact that the "references" are in the REG is unfortunate, but I don't see how we could say King David is a I Samuel hero based on that reference when we have said that AoCP doesn't have a Matthew reference.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2011, 11:58:37 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 06, 2011, 11:38:45 PM

If we're making rulings on how cards would have been printed, can we have a working Split Altar plz?

We could if the King David card were actually printed to have any reference whatsoever. King David has no reference so it is not a I Samuel card no matter whether or not the REG has the correct verse listed.

If you want to go off on a jeremiad my preference would be that you stick to your original "the new REG is completely bogus" and leave Split Altar out of it completely.

Korunks · « **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2011, 08:41:11 AM »

How about we just fix the new REG? If we don't the REG will continue to be irrelevent.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2011, 09:59:15 AM »

Quote from: Korunks on September 08, 2011, 08:41:11 AM

How about we just fix the new REG? If we don't the REG will continue to be irrelevent.

Wasn't that the whole point of a new REG? So we could fix the old one? It seems that everything got fixed but the part we complained about the most.

/So no one complain about drawing until the next set. Then they'll fix it.

STAMP · « **Reply #15 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:18:04 PM »

Samuel (RA2)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Green/Yellow • Ability: 4 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate play abilities. You may search deck for King Saul or David and put it in play to draw 2. May band to a male I Samuel Hero. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Judge, Prophet • Verse: I Samuel 7:16-17 • Availability: Rock of Ages Extended booster packs (None)

Before whacking away at special abilities willy-nilly, please consider the consequences.

1. If only King David was to be searched for, then it should have read "King Saul or King David" OR "Kings Saul or David". As printed, a player can search for David or King David.

2. As printed, "a male I Samuel Hero" can be any hero that is found in the book of I Samuel. It doesn't matter what the reference is on the hero card. I can't recall off the top of my head, but there is at least another card like this on which Bryon ruled the same way. (If I have the time I'll go find it, unless it's on the old boards.)

Finally, regarding Split Altar I gave up the ghost on that awhile ago. I am somewhat mollified that the new set gave us some new green that makes it a fun and playable brigade again. But it will never make up for the crimes against SA and ANB.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM »

1. That was intended.

2. Has anyone gone through I Samuel and picked out all the characters yet?

Korunks · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:47:27 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM

2. Has anyone gone through I Samuel and picked out all the characters yet?

here ya go.

STAMP · « **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM

1. That was intended.

There's an old expression: "The road to he11 is paved with good intentions."

Quote from: Korunks on September 08, 2011, 12:47:27 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM
2. Has anyone gone through I Samuel and picked out all the characters yet?

here ya go.

This is better.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:55:50 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on September 08, 2011, 12:47:27 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM
2. Has anyone gone through I Samuel and picked out all the characters yet?

here ya go.

Actually, that's just a list of ones with a reference from I Samuel. Anyone mentioned in I Samuel is what I'm looking for.

Korunks · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:59:30 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:55:50 PM

Quote from: Korunks on September 08, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 12:19:47 PM
2. Has anyone gone through I Samuel and picked out all the characters yet?

here ya go.
Actually, that's just a list of ones with a reference from I Samuel. Anyone mentioned in I Samuel is what I'm looking for.

And I felt smart for a moment too.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:13:47 PM »

I just read through the entirety of 1 Samuel in NIV (albeit speed reading) and came up with the following list of heroes mentioned in 1 Samuel (most of them are listed chronologically).

Hannah
Eli the Priest
Samuel
Eleazar the Guard
King Saul
Rachel (Rachel’s tomb is mentioned)
Jacob
Moses
Aaron
Gideon
Barak
Jephthah
Jonathan
Prince Jonathan
Armorbearer
David
Ahimelech, Priest at Nob
Gad
Abiathar
Abigail
Ahimelek the Hittite
Abishai
Joab

The names “Benjamin” and “Judah” are mentioned numerous times in reference to the tribe. Does that mean Benjamin and Judah are listed in 1 Samuel?

1 Samuel 14:50
50 The name of Saul’s wife was Ahinoam the daughter of Ahimaaz.

I am not sure if this is the same Ahimaaz as the priest. It seems far-fetched that it would be the same as Ahimaaz was the high priest while Solomon was king after the construction of the temple (as his father Zadok was high priest at that time), so I don't think it is the same Ahimaaz.

Kirk

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #22 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:39:11 PM »

Now I'm really hoping this ruling gets reversed. Samuel is bad enough without banding to Moses and Gideon.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:52:09 PM »

And to back up Scott (for those of you wondering which threads show the ruling that Joab promo can band to any hero mentioned in 1 and 2 Samuel, regardless of the card's reference), refer to these threads.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/joab-promo/msg349644/#msg349644

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/joabs-banding/msg439627/#msg439627

Kirk

Korunks · « **Reply #24 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:08:13 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2011, 01:39:11 PM

Now I'm really hoping this ruling gets reversed. Samuel is bad enough without banding to Moses and Gideon.

The concern about Moses I get, but Gideon isn't so Bad.

News:

Author Topic: Samuel again (Read 4289 times)