Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Personally I don't believe that SWJ is changed in game-play at all.

I wasn't heavily involved in the final wording of this ruling, but my general understanding was that it's a matter of targeting - Single target optional you can't choose to perform the option. Single target non-optional the target is protected. Multi target non-optional will still create situations where multiples exist.

Quote from: Redoubter on April 28, 2012, 04:42:15 PM

What does happen with Midwives (Wo)?  There is no "may" about it, and it doesn't say any number, it just says "all".  If that would cause duplicates, are those cards just protected from Midwives period?

Yes, this is a "hard" rule, so SAs do not overcome it.  The duplicates would be protected from Midwives and would NOT enter play.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 30, 2012, 10:18:12 PM

If Midwives is trying to bring back a Hero that you already control, nothing happens. If there are two of the same Hero in your Discard Pile and none you control, both come back and one gets discarded (since she targets both at the same time and at that time there are no copies already in play). Similarly, if Creation of the World is played, all Genesis heroes you already control remain in deck, and any you do not control come out all at once, (step I'm unsure of), and all but one are Discarded. The step I am not sure of is whether they enter battle en paradox and are then discarded, or are somehow discarded while still in limbo.

Great question.

I take this rule: A card is protected from any ability that would cause that card to become a second copy of a unique character controlled by a single player. 

to mean that once I've selected one hero with Creation otW or Midwives, I can't select another.  I know that "all" cards are technically targeted by the ability simultaneously, but in reality, we select them one at a time.  I could be wrong on this, though.

I think that sounds like the simplest solution

I thought of another instance where this "simultaneous, yet consecutive" thing might need to be followed:

A mass band enhancement (Siege, Second Seal) that brings in a King Saul hero from one territory and a King Saul EC from another player's territory.  There isn't one in battle, so neither is protected from the initial targeting of "all," but once one has been selected to enter battle, the second can't enter.  Does that make sense?

Actually,

I take that back - I went back and re-reread the new rule. All the situations that Bryon laid out occur under the second sentence, where you are actually targeting the character as a character. SWJ falls into sentence three - The initial targeting of the character is as a face-down card - At that point the third clause kicks in and nukes the character.

Creation is searching the deck and looking for characters - SWJ is setting aside a set of cards.

Facedown cards in play are still artifacts/characters/enhancements. Facedown cards in deck are just cards.

In this case, if characters revealed off of SWJ already have a copy in that player's territory/battle/set-aside, then those cards are only revealed.  They are protected from being brought to set-aside.  They are placed back on the deck in the same order as they were revealed as there is no corresponding place ability.  The same is true if duplicates are revealed; only one may be placed in set-aside, the rest return to deck after the reveal.

Does SWJ reveal?

I thought it just set aside - I don't actually have a copy in front of me - If it reveals, then you're probably right. Super lame, but right.

I've been asked whether the above rule about unique characters also applies to OTHER cards that also can't be duplicated in a territory (like fortresses).  I know that the rule didn't spell that out, but I assume that it DOES also apply to those other cards.