Author Topic: Taking a site with a card on it.  (Read 4009 times)

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2012, 11:23:02 PM »
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To Broward:  IC has no cost at all.  It does not stay in play unless it is on Isaiah.  There is no "to" to show a cost-benefit relationship.  It is not a valid argument to use IC as an example.

And Prof summarized what I was trying to say...a lot better than I did of course :P

Offline Nameless

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 08:43:54 AM »
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So is there an answer I can get with out reading a page of answers and disagreements.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2012, 08:54:44 AM »
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That said, I would have to rule that SS's negate no longer works at all. It is read from the thief's perspective, but since the thief didn't place it, then the negate never triggered for him. And since the owner doesn't control the fortress, it doesn't work from his perspective either. However, the discard portion does work no matter who controls it.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2012, 11:16:27 AM »
+1
Hey,

The cost/benefit wording on Satan's Seat is just a different, and less elegant way or stating what is addressed by the clarification in the place entry of the REG.

Quote from: REG.Place.Clarifications
An ongoing ability paired with a place ability has an implied condition of “while the placed card remains in the placed location.”

When the site is taken, Satan's Seat follows the site and remains on it.  As long as no other card is used to affect the placement or location of Satan's Seat the negate and discard abilities continue to work.

Professoralstad seems to have forgotten the precedent set with Magic Charms that if you take control of an underlying card from an opponent, you do not take control of any cards placed on it.  Satan's Seat is now in the opponent's territory, but it is still controlled by the player that originally placed it.

The negate ability has nothing to do with the site that Satan's Seat is on.  It is "directed" to the opponent of whoever is carrying out the ability, and the player that originally placed it is still carrying it out.  So the negate continues to work as if Satan's Seat hadn't been moved.  The discard ability cares only about the site that Satan's Seat is on, and not about who is rescuing from or defending that site.  So the discard ability now triggers whenever the player that took the site surrenders a lost soul out of it, but the discard is still carried out by the player that originally placed Satan's Seat.

So if I play Satan's Seat on my site, you take the site that Satan's Seat is on and then put a lost soul into that site.  If I attack you and you give me the lost soul out of the site with Satan's Seat on it, I discard the heroes I rescued with as a mandatory discard action triggered by my Satan's Seat.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2012, 01:41:50 PM »
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I was under the impression that taking control of an opponent's magician with Magic Charms DID allow MC to be used by the opponent (at least the protection part of it) but that the discard to capture couldn't be used since it's not "your" magician. However, I guess it also follows from the ruling about Agur-like enhancements on an opponent's character that you control activating from the perspective of the opponent.

I guess I'm okay with that, as I'm a fan of SS and am glad that it's harder for my opponent to get rid of.

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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2012, 05:18:52 PM »
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So I was right? Woo-hoo!  ;D

Now I'm one for ten on complicated ruling questions this season.  ::)
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Taking a site with a card on it.
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2012, 05:44:47 PM »
+1
However, I guess it also follows from the ruling about Agur-like enhancements on an opponent's character that you control activating from the perspective of the opponent.



*Lack of common sense alert*
Final ANB errata: Return player to game.

 


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