Author Topic: Samaritan Water Jar question (Read 5978 times)

The Guardian · « **on:** August 04, 2009, 05:00:13 AM »

I have 3 cards set aside from SWJ. I draw my last two cards in my deck during my draw phase and those 3 get put back in my deck. Do I get to draw my third card for that turn?

Discard this card to reveal the top 3 cards of an opponent's deck (or 9 if a Samaritan Hero is in play) and set them aside. Put Lost Souls in play instead. When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck.

sk · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:56:36 AM »

From the REG/Rulebook:
Draw Phase
On your first turn, skip the Draw Phase and play with your starting hand. On your second turn, and each turn after this, you draw three (3) cards. If you draw a Lost Soul, instead of placing it in your hand, place it in your Land of Bondage and draw a replacement card.

Seems like the drawing of three cards doesn't have to happen all at once. Is it legal to take another action while drawing (ie, opponent playing a dominant, such as Falling Away in hopes of beating their Guardian to the table, or Burial on a soul you drew to stop your Son of God from being able to rescue)? If the cards return during draw phase, I think you should be able to get your third card. If the return must wait for upkeep phase (ie, no other actions during draw phase except drawing), I don't think you get the third card.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2009, 10:36:06 AM »

I think the cards would come back during upkeep phase. If so, you obviously wouldn't get to draw a third card.

Ryupeco11 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2010, 11:00:30 PM »

ok so this is a necropost but this situation came up and i didn't find an answer on the boards. if you only have 1 or 2 cards in draw pile when your opponent use samaritan water jar do you draw your third card from the ones that were set aside?

The Schaef · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2010, 11:39:44 PM »

I believe the cards come back during Upkeep Phase, after you have already drawn whatever cards are available in the deck.

Master KChief · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2010, 12:32:43 AM »

i disagree. swj says when there are no cards in your deck, return the set-aside cards from swj to deck. if you d2 and run out of deck, you are allowed to return the cards, then d1 more. there is also nothing in the language of the card that suggests it happens during the upkeep...rather a pending trigger.

another important question related to the topic: when the cards come back, are they returned in the order they were removed, or can they return in any order (shuffle)?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2010, 01:04:50 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on May 26, 2010, 12:32:43 AM

i disagree. swj says when there are no cards in your deck, return the set-aside cards from swj to deck. if you d2 and run out of deck, you are allowed to return the cards, then d1 more. there is also nothing in the language of the card that suggests it happens during the upkeep...rather a pending trigger.

another important question related to the topic: when the cards come back, are they returned in the order they were removed, or can they return in any order (shuffle)?

I agree that they wouldn't come back during Upkeep; if I run out of cards during the battle phase, they should be put back on top. However, I know there was a discussion awhile back about how nothing besides drawing can happen during the draw phase, not sure how that turned out exactly though.

STAMP · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2010, 04:12:15 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 25, 2010, 11:39:44 PM

I believe the cards come back during Upkeep Phase, after you have already drawn whatever cards are available in the deck.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2010, 04:11:52 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on May 26, 2010, 04:12:15 PM

Quote from: The Schaef on May 25, 2010, 11:39:44 PM
I believe the cards come back during Upkeep Phase, after you have already drawn whatever cards are available in the deck.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2010, 12:12:37 AM »

I would also agree that the cards would go back in the same order

Gabe · « **Reply #10 on:** May 29, 2010, 08:59:46 AM »

Cards are returned from the set-aside area during the upkeep unless the card that set them aside has another condition. SWJ does have another condition - "When that deck has no cards,..."

The moment your deck runs out of cards the trigger returns the cards set-aside by SWJ during any phase or any players turn.

The cards that were set-aside by SWJ are returned to your deck randomly by shuffling them.

Quote from: REG > Instant Abilities > Return to Draw Pile > Default Conditions

Unless specified otherwise, cards returned to a draw pile are placed randomly inside and the draw pile is then shuffled.

Quote from: Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Draw Phase

On your first turn, skip the Draw Phase and play with your starting hand. On your second turn, and each turn after this, you draw three (3) cards. If you draw a Lost Soul, instead of placing it in your hand, place it in your Land of Bondage and draw a replacement card.

There is one action in your draw phase during which you draw three cards (and replace Lost Souls drawn). If there are less than 3 cards then you draw as many cards as possible. Once that action is complete you don't get to draw additional cards, even if cards are returned to your deck.

Similarly, if I play Words of Encouragement on Salome to interrupt, draw 3 and play next, if there is only 1 card in my deck I would not draw 1, then return the cards from SWJ and keep drawing. The draw is a one time action.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2010, 10:21:04 AM »

I agree with Gabe. That explanation seems to make the most sense.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2010, 10:43:07 AM »

So they go back whenever you deckout but the cards are shuffled in?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2010, 10:44:15 AM »

Correct. Which makes it easy for you not to have to remember the order when your opponent uses three Water Jars on you...

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2010, 10:45:16 AM »

lolz it would be cool to do that in type 1 and get rid of half the deck but alas that is not possible...

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2010, 10:50:34 AM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on May 29, 2010, 10:45:16 AM

lolz it would be cool to do that in type 1 and get rid of half the deck but alas that is not possible...

Sure it is. A 150 card T1 deck could do it easily.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2010, 02:03:52 AM »

Quote

The cards that were set-aside by SWJ are returned to your deck randomly by shuffling them.

I'm not disagreeing, but more so asking what the reason is behind this. Why would they get shuffled? When cards get revealed to the bottom they go in order of the way in which they were revealed. A player does not reveal 3 evil cards for Bronze Laver, and shuffle those 3 then place them on the bottom, they reveal three and put them in order of how they were revealed. So I would tend to say however the cards are revealed with SWJ they get put back on top.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2010, 08:22:08 AM »

That's because they are placed in the bottom of the deck by special ability. That is a game rule that cards returned to decks get shuffled.

that one kid · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2010, 08:24:35 AM »

Unless the ability says not to.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:13:36 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on June 01, 2010, 02:03:52 AM

When cards get revealed to the bottom they go in order of the way in which they were revealed.

Is this correct? I've always played that when the Revealer LS shows the top 2 cards that they could be put on the bottom in whatever order is chosen.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:16:38 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 01, 2010, 10:13:36 AM

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on June 01, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
When cards get revealed to the bottom they go in order of the way in which they were revealed.
Is this correct? I've always played that when the Revealer LS shows the top 2 cards that they could be put on the bottom in whatever order is chosen.

Chosen by whom?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:21:45 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on June 01, 2010, 10:16:38 AM

Chosen by whom?

I've always played that the order is chosen by the owner of the 2 revealed cards.

Gabe · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:24:33 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on June 01, 2010, 02:03:52 AM

I'm not disagreeing, but more so asking what the reason is behind this. Why would they get shuffled?

Quote from: REG > Instant Abilities > Return to Draw Pile > Default Conditions

Unless specified otherwise, cards returned to a draw pile are placed randomly inside and the draw pile is then shuffled.

Since SMJ is a return ability the cards are shuffled.

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on June 01, 2010, 02:03:52 AM

When cards get revealed to the bottom they go in order of the way in which they were revealed.

According to the REG you can choose the order cards you place in your deck if they are returned to a specific location. Your opponent will choose if they're the one revealing and placing.

Quote from: REG > Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > Special Conditions

Cards placed in a draw pile typically specify a particular location in the draw pile (e.g., bottom). If a player must place multiple cards at the same time, that player may choose the order of the cards being placed (e.g., Feast of Trumpets and The Bronze Laver).

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:34:57 AM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on June 01, 2010, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: REG > Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > Special Conditions
Cards placed in a draw pile typically specify a particular location in the draw pile (e.g., bottom). If a player must place multiple cards at the same time, that player may choose the order of the cards being placed (e.g., Feast of Trumpets and The Bronze Laver).

I assume that "player" in that quote refers to the holder of the returning card, correct?

Gabe · « **Reply #24 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:40:27 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on June 01, 2010, 10:34:57 AM

I assume that "player" in that quote refers to the holder of the returning card, correct?

Correct. If cards are being placed on/under your deck then you choose the order unless the card placing them there gives another player that choice.

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Author Topic: Samaritan Water Jar question (Read 5978 times)

The Schaef