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Author Topic: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare  (Read 1498 times)

Offline SignoftheStar

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Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« on: April 06, 2013, 03:35:23 PM »
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Ok, so here's the deal:

Saint of Virtue holds an Ephesians 6 Enhancement. Along with the Armor of God Enhancements, this includes Spiritual Warfare, a Green/Silver Enhancement. Since Saint of Virtue is Purple, it cannot normally use Spiritual Warfare. There is at least one solution: Using a Gold Hero in your territory, you use Training in Righteousness to set Saint of Virtue aside to give him Green and/or Silver Brigades so that he can use it.

This, however, is my question:
Let us say that somehow (say through Gathering of Angels) some angel is banded to Saint of Virtue in battle. I play Spiritual Warfare using the angel. Now that Spiritual Warfare is active, am I allowed to place it on Saint of Virtue, or does his/her special ability necessarily imply him/her using the Enhancement him/herself?
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Offline Mageduckey

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 03:58:54 PM »
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For Saint of Virtue to hold onto the enhancement, it must be of the same brigade (or playable - aka multi-brigade enhancements).
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Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 04:07:12 PM »
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The special ability of Saint of Virtue does not mention brigade. It's like David saying he can hold any non-Silver Weapon.

The only requirement of the Enhancement is that it be from Ephesians 6.

My question is if he can hold the Enhancement even when some other character is using it.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 05:02:36 PM »
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If Saint came in before the angel/green hero, then it would not work, since all other abilities (except CtB) would complete before the band. Therefore, the enhancement would try to activate, but could not.

The real question is if the angel/green hero went in first, then banded to Saint, could the other hero use the enhancement that Saint is holding when it tries to activate, and (if so) would Saint still get to keep it afterward. There may be an answer under the rules for "play," but I don't have time to look it up right now.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 05:08:43 PM »
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Considering Saint of Virtue can't hold Spiritual Warfare while purple, that question is null. There's a reason David has to specify that he can hold weapons of other brigades--normally you can't. SoV's hold ability is like being standard w/c--it allows you to hold Ephesians 6 enhancements of the same brigade. It doesn't need to say "of the same brigade" because that's standard game rule.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 05:59:40 PM »
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Wouldnt he still hold Spiritual Warfare b/c of ability? just wouldnt activate in battle?

Gold Shield him.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:21:51 AM »
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Quote from: Westy on April 06, 2013, 05:08:43 PM
Considering Saint of Virtue can't hold Spiritual Warfare while purple, that question is null. There's a reason David has to specify that he can hold weapons of other brigades--normally you can't. SoV's hold ability is like being standard w/c--it allows you to hold Ephesians 6 enhancements of the same brigade. It doesn't need to say "of the same brigade" because that's standard game rule.

The reason David's SA specifies brigade is because he is WC and can normally hold weapons, but must follow the rules of WC. Saint is not WC, and is therefore not governed by WC rules. The same holds true with non-WC Goliath holding more than one weapon.
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Offline KingLeo

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »
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(sorry for the spam) did this happen in a game to you in a game? If it did I'd like to see that deck! It sounds cool! Please have mercy for my spam of a question and no help in this situation.

Thanks,
KingLeo 8)
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 01:00:37 PM »
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Quote from: YourMathTeacher on April 07, 2013, 07:21:51 AM
Quote from: Westy on April 06, 2013, 05:08:43 PM
Considering Saint of Virtue can't hold Spiritual Warfare while purple, that question is null. There's a reason David has to specify that he can hold weapons of other brigades--normally you can't. SoV's hold ability is like being standard w/c--it allows you to hold Ephesians 6 enhancements of the same brigade. It doesn't need to say "of the same brigade" because that's standard game rule.

The reason David's SA specifies brigade is because he is WC and can normally hold weapons, but must follow the rules of WC. Saint is not WC, and is therefore not governed by WC rules. The same holds true with non-WC Goliath holding more than one weapon.
While the WC rules and other hold ability rules do have differences, they are few, which is why I compared it to the WC rules, and didn't say it was the same.  However, it's not about the WC rules at all. It's about the rule that you can't play enhancements of other brigades onto a character of a specific brigade, period.

Quote from: REG
A hold ability allows a player to place qualifying cards on a card with the hold ability when it is not at its maximum
capacity and allows a player to return cards already placed with the hold ability.
Key word being qualified. If it has a different brigade, it doesn't meet the qualifications.
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Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 02:04:58 PM »
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Quote from: Westy on April 07, 2013, 01:00:37 PM
Key word being qualified. If it has a different brigade, it doesn't meet the qualifications.

Again, the only qualification according to Saint of Virtue's special ability is merely that it is an Ephesians 6 Enhancement. Brigade has no influence on whether or not he/she can hold Spiritual Warfare; it only stops the player from playing it with him/her in battle under normal circumstances.
If Saint of Virtue used Coat of Many Colors, allowing him to use Enhancements of any brigade BUT not changing his own brigade in any way, he should be able to use and thus certainly hold Spiritual Warfare. Insofar as this is true, the actual brigade of Saint of Virtue should in no way inhibit his/her holding Spiritual Warfare.

The question that is still circling around is concerning whether or not Saint of Virtue could proceed to hold a Spiritual Warfare that is in fact in play but by means of another character.

Quote from: KingLeo on April 07, 2013, 09:32:12 AM
(sorry for the spam) did this happen in a game to you in a game? If it did I'd like to see that deck! It sounds cool! Please have mercy for my spam of a question and no help in this situation.

Thanks,
KingLeo 8)

King Leo, this was a part of an interesting deck that I had built before. I am currently revising it, so now the answer to this question will determine Saint of Virtue's continued presence in the deck.
Once this deck is finished, I would love to show it to you. If you want to check out what the deck used to look like, just let me know.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 04:23:50 PM »
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The only way to get around the requirement for enhancements to be played on a matching brigade character is if there is a "use other enhancement" ability involved. Saint of Virtue doesn't have that type of ability. He works just like any warrior/weapon except that he has to be in battle for his hold ability to activate.
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Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: Saint of Virtue and Spiritual Warfare
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 04:41:38 PM »
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Ok, so it seems that we're drawing to a conclusion here:

In order for Saint of Virtue to hold Spiritual Warfare, he has to be the one using it. Ergo, if he is in battle and Spiritual Warfare is activated by another Hero in battle, Spiritual Warfare cannot then proceed to be held by Saint of Virtue as he is not using it.

Confirmed?
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