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Author Topic: The Third Seal  (Read 1902 times)

Warrior_Monk

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The Third Seal
« on: January 04, 2011, 04:33:18 PM »
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I RA with Angel with a Secret Name (he's my only hero), my opponent blocks with Death and Hades. Beast from the Earth is the only evil character in my territory, and I play The Third Seal. I discard Death and Hades. Does this work?

What the card says: "Each player with an odd number of Evil Characters in Territory must discard one Evil Character. Owner's choice. May not be prevented or negated."

What the play-as says: "Each player with an odd number of Evil Characters in territory must discard one of his own Evil Characters. Cannot be negated."

Play-as is actually an errata, so, disregard?
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 09:29:59 PM »
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If we are disregarding the play-as that it how it is worded but I say for game purposes it shouldn't plus I'm almost positive that it is intended for discarding in territory, so I will say no.
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Offline JSB23

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 09:34:30 PM »
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No
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 10:17:16 PM »
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Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on January 04, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
If we are disregarding the play-as that it how it is worded but I say for game purposes it shouldn't plus I'm almost positive that it is intended for discarding in territory, so I will say no.
Intended doesn't matter.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 10:38:07 PM »
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Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 04, 2011, 10:17:16 PM
Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on January 04, 2011, 09:29:59 PM
If we are disregarding the play-as that it how it is worded but I say for game purposes it shouldn't plus I'm almost positive that it is intended for discarding in territory, so I will say no.
Intended doesn't matter.
The game does.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 10:55:11 PM »
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Intended doesn't matter or Split Altar would shuffle entire Art piles. As worded, every character with an odd number of Evil Characters gets to Discard any one Evil Character. It would take errata, not play-as to change this. Fortunately, this is a good thing since it will give Silver a second worthwhile battle-winner.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 11:05:29 PM »
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They play-as is correct that it is CBN, right?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 11:11:59 PM »
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If the original card says CBP/N then yes, that part is a true play-as.
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browarod

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 04:16:30 AM »
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You cannot discard Death and Hades unless you happen to own it (and it was swapped with SWS, or something). The card states "owner's choice", so you cannot discard any evil character that you do not own.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 11:25:58 AM »
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Quote from: browarod on January 05, 2011, 04:16:30 AM
You cannot discard Death and Hades unless you happen to own it (and it was swapped with SWS, or something). The card states "owner's choice", so you cannot discard any evil character that you do not own.
That is just a clarifier, not part of the ability, and clarifiers actually do nothing now.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 11:29:47 AM »
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Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 05, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: browarod on January 05, 2011, 04:16:30 AM
You cannot discard Death and Hades unless you happen to own it (and it was swapped with SWS, or something). The card states "owner's choice", so you cannot discard any evil character that you do not own.
That is just a clarifier, not part of the ability, and clarifiers actually do nothing now.

No it's not.  It's part of the SA because it limits targets.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 11:47:44 AM »
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Quote from: Bryon on October 21, 2010, 02:21:38 PM
So, for Warriors and earlier, it appears we have two kinds of multi-sentence abilities:
1) second sentence is not a second ability, but clarifies the first (Prince of this World, Hunger, etc.)
2) second sentence depends on the first completing, and modifies the result of that first ability (set asides, Temptation, Golden Censer, withdraw and keep enhancements, etc.)

Doesn't modify the result.
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browarod

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 03:15:15 PM »
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It DOES modify the result because the result would be different if you could choose any evil character as opposed to one you own.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 03:23:58 PM »
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The result is that it's discarded.

What does "Owner" mean? Owner of The Third Seal, or owner of the evil character?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 08:49:28 PM »
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It can't be the owner of the evil character, because when you can target any character for Discard, the owner doesn't then get to chose whether or not to actually discard it. "Owner" in this case must refer to the owner of a territory with an odd number of Evil Characters.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 01:08:04 AM »
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Evil character isn't what I meant, but regardless, that doesn't restrict who you target.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 12:12:13 AM »
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I suppose theoretically you could force them to kill Death and Hades if they have an odd number of evil characters and they won't sacrifice any of them before they would give up a soul and they chose to discard Death and Hades because they are silly but they get to discard which one they choose because they are the owners of the odd number evil characters like Pol said, but if you have an odd number of evil characters then you couldn't discard their card because it makes sense plus that is what the play-as says.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: The Third Seal
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 01:31:30 PM »
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Could we get an elder in here?
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