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Do evil character abilities activate when banded in by revolt?

Do evil character abilities activate when banded in by revolt?

The band ability on Revolt completes first. That includes activating the special ability on all banded characters. Then the set aside portion of Revolt kicks in.

I don't know, because completing character abilities might be considered to be apart of the band ability in the sense that they have to complete before the set aside takes affect. Otherwise I don't really see the purpose of Revolt banding evil characters in. Worst Revolt ever haha

Instaposted  by Gabe

so all of the evil characters abilities insert themselves before the set aside of revolt? lol sorry i thought that was the whole reason peter's heal couldn't be an instead

These things have nothing to do with one another, absolutely nothing.  You are not "inserting" character abilities between other abilities activating; the process of completing the band is what allows those characters to complete, and when completing Revolt you complete the band, then you complete the set-aside.

Peter cannot insert because you cannot insert an activated ability (which his is) during another ability activating.  Nothing is allowing him to do that, so it cannot happen.

i'm reeeeeallllly trying to understand what part of the card revolt's ability is not having other abilities complete literally in between it in the 'process' of the band followed by the set aside which is all one ability on one card

It's the basis of band.  And the basis of abilities in Redemption.  A band ability completing includes the completion of the banded characters.

And this is how all abilities work.  You complete one fully, then move to the next one.

Has the old "Order of Operations" changed? I thought band abilities were always done after the other printed abilities.

This is the revised REG:

These are the instructions printed on cards (see Anatomy of a Card and Resolving Special Ability Combinations in the rulebook) that define what is done when the card is played or activated. When a single card is played and has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), perform the abilities in this order:

1. Complete all special abilities in the order written on the card except those that add a character to a battle (see steps 3 and 4 below).
Note that some special abilities can happen together even though they may be separated by a period.

2. If the card is a character with either a gained ability or a weapon-class enhancement, then:
          a. Activate any gained abilities in the order gained except those that add a character to a battle.
          b. Activate the special abilities on any carried weapon-class enhancement except those that add a character to a battle.

      Note that this only applies to cards that are PLAYED and abilities gained BY a character. Enhancements that are placed on a character were played previously, and that is when they activated; also, their abilities are on the enhancement, not “gained” by the character.

3. Complete band ​abilities.

4. Complete any choose blocker/rescuer​ or side battle​ abilities.

5. Complete all pending abilities that trigger or activate based on the playing of the card (either playing generally or by putting a character in battle).

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 20, 2016, 06:15:08 PM

Note that some special abilities can happen together even though they may be separated by a period.

Some special abilities happen together like the band then set aside abilities of Revolt which are separated by a period.

Unfortunately there is no "then" in this SA. I'm sure that was intended, but alas it was not written. 

If you first set aside, then attempt to band, as has been suggested, does that even work? Band by definition is adding one or more characters to the battle when there's already a character in the battle.

I was wondering that myself. So unfortunately we have a card that does not do what is printed, unless we make an errata to add a "then."

At the moment I'm still inclined to rule the card is resolved in the order written and intended. All the other elders I've spoken to understand it to work that way as well.

Out of curiosity, what would be the rationale for ruling it this way, since that clearly contradicts the REG?

In the case of Revolt my take is that the abilities function together as a band and set aside. The fact that the card has a bunch of text that does nothing otherwise is reason enough for me to think it could qualify as an exception.

The abilities are separate sentences, with no words that connect them. I realize that useless text is not wanted, but I don't see any way this can be ruled as you are saying, except under the "that's what we meant" rationale. Since that rationale has been shot down so many times before, I think it unwise to make an exception here. Realize that I say as much because I have argued on the "that's what we meant" side of several of those past rulings. If we're going to make exceptions now, then we need to go back and make a few more exceptions. 

YMT has a very valid point. Might I also point out that it was decided that erratas to cards did not need to be made unless there was a game breaking circumstance involved...

Revolt is still under discussion. Our primary focus has been on getting the new set ready and getting loads of previews available for you guys. Still, we aren't ignoring this. We plan to release a minor REG update along with all the updated Cloud of Witnesses info. I'd really like to see resolution to Revolt by that time.

That being said, one thing we're considering is making an update to the opening sentence of the "order of abilities" entry in the REG. Presently it reads:

When a single card is played and has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), perform the abilities in this order:

We're considering making the following change:

When one or more characters are played and have more than one special ability (including gained abilities, cards placed or held), perform the abilities in this order:

As far as we can tell the order of abilities was always designed for characters entering battle and all the related abilities that fire off when that happens. The language used just happened to cover the abilities on individual Enhancements that are played as well.

Does anyone know of any cards that might be impacted by this change, apart from Revolt?

That order of operations looks insufficient for the new, more complicated cards. There used to be a lot of stupidity and inconsistency in the rules when it came to multibanding, thus the current order of operations rules are not designed to be good top-down rules but were a bandaid that was placed on a bigger problem that was never actually fixed. Now, the problems surrounding multiband resolution have been independently resolved, but it was years later and most people forgot what the initial problem was so we never went back to the root.

I see no reason to have separate caveat for cards that add characters in battle, and we have made great strides in putting SA's in chronological order on the card. Are there any cards that would be broken by simply removing that part of the order of operations? Right now all it's really doing is breaking Revolt and forcing you use to use all abilities except banding and CTB/R after any other abilities in a multiband as far as I can tell.

@YMT we recently had a correction on one of the job cards to make it play as intended. Personally I think we should be even more active about correcting misprints (original Philetus, for example), but we certainly do not have a policy of no corrections unless gamestate is threatened.