Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Hi everybody,

just ran into following situation:

RA with Sam (RoA), block with Hard-Hearted Pharaoh (CoW) already equipped with Horses (DCed top card of opp. deck + drew 2; no play), banded to Egyptian Magicians from hand (reveal top and take to hand since EE and drew 1) banded to Queen Tahpenes (dc top card of opp. deck).

Now Sam's Edict is played and Pharaoh gets negated and DCed. What exactly happens now?

My assumption: I can keep the cards drawn by Horses (since I did not play it, hence it does not get negated), opp. gets back the 2 cards which have been DCed from deck, Magicians go back from where they came.

But what happens with the SA of Magicians? Does it get reverted completely since Magicians are treated as never played (even though SA is CBI)?

Thanks for short clarification!

Bye

Thanks a lot. Interesting that EMs SA still keeps active since they are considered as never hitting play! This part of reverting will never become intuitive for me! 

Thanks a lot. Interesting that EMs SA still keeps active since they are considered as never hitting play! This part of reverting will never become intuitive for me! 

This is why imagining negate as things "never happening" doesn't work some things still do happen. In the case of CBI/N, cascade negate isn't special, it's just a regular part of how negate works now so regardless of how far down the cascade train an ability is, if it's CBI/N it can't be undone.

Hopefully the cascade negate rule will change to include not affecting draw or band abilities, and stopping at a CBI or CBN modifier so it doesn’t affect cards after it hits that modifier (such as Queen Taphenes’ Discard ability not being negated in the above scenario).

IMO that would make the situation less intuitive and add confusion to many scenarios. I personally believe that the cascade part of negate has a negative impact on the game as a whole and be completely done away with so that negate a negate only undoes the ability being targeted by the negate but making certain abilities CBI but only by "cascade" would be an unprecedented rules complication since right now "cascade" negate isn't a unique kind of ability, it's simply just a part of how a regular negate ability works. A rule change like that would have to first officially separate "negate" and "cascade negate" into two different things and if TPTB are willing to do that they might as well remove cascade all together.