Author Topic: Huge Egyptian  (Read 1571 times)

Offline Master KChief

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Huge Egyptian
« on: March 17, 2013, 05:13:10 PM »
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Is Huge Egyptian considered a giant? 7 foot 6 inches is huge.
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Offline Westok Kiok

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 05:15:14 PM »
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Is Huge Egyptian considered a giant? 7 foot 6 inches is huge.
I would consider Yao Ming a giant.  8)

Edit---
Quote
These Redemption® characters are classified as giants:
 Goliath (L), Goliath (P), Goliath (UL), Ishbibenob (Ki), Ishbibenob (Wa), Lahmi (Ki), Lahmi
(Wa), Saph (Ki), Saph (Wa), and The Twelve-Fingered Giant (FF)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 05:21:49 PM by Westok Kiok »
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 05:19:51 PM »
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I think the official definition of Giant relates to the Anakim, who were a specific race of people who became part of the Philistine civilization. So I'm pretty sure Huge is not a giant, since there is no evidence that he was a descendant of the Anakim. And since he is not referenced as a giant explicitly (just huge), I don't think there is any Biblical support.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 05:32:21 PM »
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I agree that Giant is a race, not an adjective. The Anakim were upwards of 9 feet tall, which is in excess of normal human growth. 7-footers, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen, as evidenced by the fact that just about every college basketball team (whether big time or community college) has at least one 7-footer on its roster. Some teams have several. I realize that we cannot be sure this was true back in Biblical days, but it illustrates that normal human growth potential has always been in the 7-foot range.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 05:54:59 PM »
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Just the Anakim? What about the Amorites?

Amos 2:9: Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.

Numbers 13:32-33: And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

And the Emim:

Deuteronomy 2:10-11:The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.

The Zuzim:

Deurteronomy 2:20-21: That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:

Nephilim:

Genesis 6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 07:00:16 PM »
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I didn't say only the Anakim. I said that Giants were a race, under which the Anakim fall. Besides, I don't see Egyptians in any of those verses. If anything, the other verses indicated that the others were wiped out.

Also, I don't see any specific height references for the Amorites. They obviously were not tall as trees, so that was probably just a metaphor. For the Emim and Zuzim, they may have been one in the same, just called one name by Moabites and another by Amonites. The verses seem to use "Giant" as if it was a specific race, IMO.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 07:03:07 PM »
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I didn't say only the Anakim. I said that Giants were a race, under which the Anakim fall. Besides, I don't see Egyptians in any of those verses. If anything, the other verses indicated that the others were wiped out.

Also, I don't see any specific height references for the Amorites. They obviously were not tall as trees, so that was probably just a metaphor. For the Emim and Zuzim, they may have been one in the same, just called one name by Moabites and another by Amonites. The verses seem to use "Giant" as if it was a specific race, IMO.

I agree. However, if an EC was printed from one of those verses where giants are referenced, then the discussion could be had if the definition should be revisited. But I know that currently, the only giants in the game are Goliath, Saph, Lahmi, Ishbibenob and TFG.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 07:32:54 PM »
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The current definition says from "a particular race of extraordinary size." We could be more specific, since some of verses reference the Anakim for comparison. My previous point was that 7'6" is not extraordinary size (never mind the fact that the definition talks about a race), as evidenced by the prevalence of 7-footers over the years, and particularly current basketball players at the college and pro level. In fact, I have had three 7-foot tall students over the years at the high school level (and two of them did not play sports at all ... go figure). If something that is extraordinary happens with great frequency, then it is not extraordinary. Perhaps we are just viewing the word "extraordinary" differently.  :-\

The term Giant was associated with Anakim, or those as tall as the Anakim. So, 9-footers are what we are talking about, which is indeed extraordinary. There are no records of anyone in modern or ancient times of that height, other than this specific race.

I certainly agree that if we made cards about the Zuzim and Emim, that they would have to be classified as Giants. I just don't think the Huge Egyptian fits that definition. He was Huge, not Giant.  ;)
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 08:03:10 PM »
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Besides, I don't see Egyptians in any of those verses.

I wasn't even pursuing that point any further. Races was dropped, I provided specific races.

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Also, I don't see any specific height references for the Amorites. They obviously were not tall as trees, so that was probably just a metaphor.

Except Numbers 13:32 further validates they were men of great stature.

Quote
For the Emim and Zuzim, they may have been one in the same, just called one name by Moabites and another by Amonites. The verses seem to use "Giant" as if it was a specific race, IMO.

Both were completely separate tribes of the Rephaites.

My previous point was that 7'6" is not extraordinary size (never mind the fact that the definition talks about a race), as evidenced by the prevalence of 7-footers over the years, and particularly current basketball players at the college and pro level. In fact, I have had three 7-foot tall students over the years at the high school level (and two of them did not play sports at all ... go figure). If something that is extraordinary happens with great frequency, then it is not extraordinary. Perhaps we are just viewing the word "extraordinary" differently.  :-\

Are you really trying to suggest 7 footers occur with 'great frequency' within the human population? The average height is not 7 foot. 7 foot and over is unarguably an outlier by todays standards.

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The term Giant was associated with Anakim, or those as tall as the Anakim. So, 9-footers are what we are talking about, which is indeed extraordinary. There are no records of anyone in modern or ancient times of that height, other than this specific race.

Actually, rephaim is the most commonly used term in the bible to describe giants. Also, by which standard are you measuring a 'giant' by at least 9 foot?
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 09:02:09 PM »
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I'll just use bullet points to save time & space.  ;)

1. "Great stature" would still not be sufficient for an official definition, if that is what we are pursuing.
2. That's fine about the tribes. I had not read the verses in between. The verses had almost identical wording, so I was wondering out loud if they were referencing the same people.
3. When I talked about frequency, I was referring to total occurences, not Measures of Central Tendency. I would argue that there have likely been thousands (or hundreds of thousands, or even millions) of 7-footers over the course of history. Whereas the Giants seem to be referring to a very select few that could be counted without a calculator.
4. You can use whatever term for Giant you choose in the proposed definition.  ;)
5. I was using Goliath's height as a standard, just so we would have one in the definition. The verses mentioned the others, but then said "as tall as the Anakim." This seems to be a standard by which a Giant would be measured. We can use whatever height we want, and we can use feet or any other ancient unit of measure.  ;D

Realize that I am just making suggestions for an official definition.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 09:32:11 PM »
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1. "Great stature" would still not be sufficient for an official definition, if that is what we are pursuing.

I disagree, if the time was taken to make note of such an abnormality, it can quite easily be shoed-in as a 'giant' by their standards as well.

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3. When I talked about frequency, I was referring to total occurences, not Measures of Central Tendency. I would argue that there have likely been thousands (or hundreds of thousands, or even millions) of 7-footers over the course of history. Whereas the Giants seem to be referring to a very select few that could be counted without a calculator.

The problem with this is 7 foot tall people are not indicative of the average human height by modern standards and thus cannot be nailed down to a specific region of people. However, we apparently had entire tribes of extraordinarily tall humans back in the day. While it can be extrapolated that there were of course few giants in comparison to the whole human population, we are still talking about entire races here.

Quote
5. I was using Goliath's height as a standard, just so we would have one in the definition. The verses mentioned the others, but then said "as tall as the Anakim." This seems to be a standard by which a Giant would be measured. We can use whatever height we want, and we can use feet or any other ancient unit of measure.  ;D

If we can have flexible definitions for 'prophet' and 'musician', I see no reason to extend the courtesy by classifying anyone portrayed in the bible to be of unusually large proportions as a giant.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2013, 06:27:42 AM »
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If Giant is a race, then the dad would also have to have been a Giant. There cannot be occasional Giants over time. In trying to determine who can be classifed as a Giant, we have to look at heritage, as well as height.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 07:13:55 AM »
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If Giant is a race, then the dad would also have to have been a Giant. There cannot be occasional Giants over time.

I don't hold this to be necessarily true given giants existed before the flood, and I would assume Noah and his direct descendants were not giants. However, its clearly evident a number of Canaan's sons were giants, which would mean a 'giant gene' did in fact survive through the wife of Ham.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Huge Egyptian
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 08:09:19 AM »
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If Giant is a race, then the dad would also have to have been a Giant. There cannot be occasional Giants over time.

I don't hold this to be necessarily true given giants existed before the flood, and I would assume Noah and his direct descendants were not giants. However, its clearly evident a number of Canaan's sons were giants, which would mean a 'giant gene' did in fact survive through the wife of Ham.

I'm no Bible Scholar, but my understanding was that Giants were of angel/human descent, which could have happened before or after the flood. Out of curiosity, which Giants existed before the flood?

FYI, I think we have done enough brainstorming about a definition. We probably should just come up with a definition that can be tweaked, and then presented to the Elders. Any ideas for wording?
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