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Let's say my opponent successfully discards my Son of God from my deck (via Confusion or something).  I later use Angel at the Tomb to put Son of God back into my deck, and eventually draw it and play it.  I make a rescue attempt that allows me to play Goods Recovered.  Since Son of God was discarded from my deck by an opponent, and since it doesn't specify "without making a rescue" (as the Angel does), can I use Son of God again?


Angel at the Tomb: "If your Son of God card was discarded without making a rescue, shuffle it into draw pile. Cannot be negated."

Goods Recovered: "Discard one Raiders' Camp and return all captured Heroes to owner's territory. Return one of your good cards discarded from draw pile by opponent to draw pile. Shuffle draw pile. Cannot be negated. • Play As: Discard one Raiders' Camp. Return all captured Heroes to owner's territory. Return one of your good cards discarded from your deck by an opponent to your deck. Cannot be negated."

Only dominant I can see you "reusing" with this is Glory of the Lord.

i believe this would work. anyone have a source location in the REG why this wouldnt work?

i dont think its location still has to be in the discard pile for that statement to still be true. sog 'has been discarded' before, but it now resides in the deck/discard pile/wherever.

Redemption requires that they are currently being treated as a soul/evil character.

On the flip side, Persian Presidents can target characters that were previously set aside at any point in the game (but aren't anymore).  Thus why it seems like it should work to me (unless Gabe is right that this is an attribute reset in the draw pile).

Hey,

I was liking Gabe's reasoning, until I realized that cards in the discard pile "reset" to face value too.  So if Son of God can satisfy the condition "discarded from draw pile by opponent" while it is in the discard pile, then it's not something that "resets" and thus would be unaffected by going to the draw pile.

When I first saw this thread my initial reaction was something along the lines of we'll never let Son of God be used twice in one game, but I've kinda come around to the idea.  The key in my mind being that it only works if your opponent discards your Son of God from your draw pile.  You can't force your opponent to discard your Son of God card from your draw pile (unless I guess you force them to block with 2nd Edition Evil Spawn when the only card in your draw pile is Son of God and your opponent has no cards left in their draw pile..."chance'd be one in about... a very big number. Ain't odds I'd play.") so you can't build a deck around using your Son of God twice.  The other main consideration for me was that if your opponent does discard your Son of God from your draw pile it usually puts you at a huge disadvantage.  Being able to counter that advantage by using two very niche cards seems like a reasonable trade off to me.

So, if it were up to me, right now, I'd say you could legally use Son of God twice in one game if the situations arose to use the cards presented in the way described.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

please show me this so-called variation of 'reset' you speak of in the REG?

Since SoG was discarded without making a rescue the first time it was discarded, couldn't you use a similar logic to recur it ad nauseum with Angel at the Tomb?

I would build a deck around this.

please show me this so-called variation of 'reset' you speak of in the REG?

I'm not talking about a "reset" because I wasn't the one who offered that logic.  Please talk to Gabe.

What I said - if that is of interest to you - is that cards are only considered discarded if they're actually in the discard pile, or another location where cards are treated as discarded, e.g. Potter's Field.  I don't believe they carry around this "was discarded at some point" stigma around with them the entire game to begin with.

And another thing that this thread exemplifies, is the dubious evolution from "the REG provides answers to questions about how certain abilities act and interact" to what now seems to be "absolutely everything is legal if I can parse the words just so and it is not expressly forbidden in the REG".  The REG is a guide for how the cards function in the game; it is not the sole mediator between the rulebook and anarchy.

i think there is quite the difference between cards that target cards in locations NOW and cards that target other cards' actions/locations/etc in the past. as demonstrated, persian presidents captures heroes that were set-aside before, not heroes that are set-aside now.

A distinction which only exists on one other card, and in both cases refers to a card that was returned to play from a set-aside area.  In neither of those cases does that condition continue to apply to those cards once they are e.g. discarded.

Neither is there any other instance in the game where any consideration is given to any card that might have been affected in a certain way previously but is no longer in the same state it was.  Cards that return captured Heroes to territory do not continually return those same Heroes to territory each time such an ability is played.  Shadow of Death does not affect "the first Evil Character" if it is no longer in play.

Hey,

Since SoG was discarded without making a rescue the first time it was discarded, couldn't you use a similar logic to recur it ad nauseum with Angel at the Tomb?

Once Son of God rescues a lost soul the "without making a rescue" part of the condition on Angel at the Tomb can no longer be satisfied so Angel at the Tomb could not recover Son of God for a second rescue.

[The REG] is not the sole mediator between the rulebook and anarchy.

Of course not, that's Bryon's job

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Once Son of God rescues a lost soul the "without making a rescue" part of the condition on Angel at the Tomb can no longer be satisfied so Angel at the Tomb could not recover Son of God for a second rescue.

According to your and Chief's logic, it can, because the one time he discarded it, it was discarded without making a rescue, and so for the rest of the game, that "discarded without making a rescue" hangs around its neck.

Hey,

Quote from: SirNobody on June 18, 2009, 12:54:34 AM

Once Son of God rescues a lost soul the "without making a rescue" part of the condition on Angel at the Tomb can no longer be satisfied so Angel at the Tomb could not recover Son of God for a second rescue.

According to your and Chief's logic, it can, because the one time he discarded it, it was discarded without making a rescue, and so for the rest of the game, that "discarded without making a rescue" hangs around its neck.

Not if "was discarded" and "without making a rescue" are separate conditions.  Which is how I'm treating them.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly