Author Topic: "Opposing"  (Read 2173 times)

Offline Josh

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"Opposing"
« on: January 29, 2013, 12:53:39 PM »
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What is the definition of "opposing"?  I only ask because I couldn't find a definition in the REG.  It could mean a couple different things in regards to side-battles.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 01:07:40 PM »
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Can you elaborate a bit?  Which cards are you looking at and what different meanings are you seeing?
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Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Josh

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 01:37:03 PM »
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Can you elaborate a bit?  Which cards are you looking at and what different meanings are you seeing?

Basically, my question is this:  If a card has an ability "Discard an opposing character", and I play it during a sidebattle, can I discard an opponent's character in the original battle?
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If You gave Your life to love them so will I

Offline The Guardian

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 01:49:45 PM »
+1
Ah, gotcha. I believe "opposing character" refers to a character fighting in the battle in which the card was played, so I would rule that play would not work.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 02:19:25 PM »
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Ah, gotcha. I believe "opposing character" refers to a character fighting in the battle in which the card was played, so I would rule that play would not work.

The Guardian is correct. I thought we had added that to the new REG, but if not, it should be added.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 11:02:51 AM »
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Spoiler?
Final ANB errata: Return player to game.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 12:55:21 PM »
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Spoiler?

Yes and no. Yes, because I believe some of the new cards say opposing. No, because a few cards (Drawn Sword is one I believe) already say opposing, and CwD says unless opposed. It's a relatively new term, but it is currently in use.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 01:10:35 PM »
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I checked the list and no new cards use the term opposing in the special ability. But the one new special ability does use that term in it's definition.
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Offline Red Warrior

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 01:17:10 PM »
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Siegeworks is "all opposing characters in battle"

Razor is "an opponent's character in battle"

Drawn Sword is "an opponent's character in field of battle"


So we have a slight variance in our verbiage.

Although I'm a little confused on the whole "an opponent's" issue with "own+control"... if your opponent is controlling one of your characters in a side battle I presume it is not considered an "opponent's"  character, correct?
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browarod

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 02:14:05 PM »
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As far as I am aware, "your" is the only term in Redemption that implicitly includes the ownership AND the control aspect. Not 100% sure, though.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 02:21:48 PM »
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I checked the list and no new cards use the term opposing in the special ability. But the one new special ability does use that term in it's definition.

Right. That's what I was thinking.

As far as I am aware, "your" is the only term in Redemption that implicitly includes the ownership AND the control aspect. Not 100% sure, though.

Not true as far as I know. Opponent's, player's, his/hers, and any similar variation should be ruled the same way as your.

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browarod

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 02:36:57 PM »
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As far as I am aware, "your" is the only term in Redemption that implicitly includes the ownership AND the control aspect. Not 100% sure, though.

Not true as far as I know. Opponent's, player's, his/hers, and any similar variation should be ruled the same way as your.
None of those possessive forms have REG entries (nor does simply "him/her"), but the entries for "opponent" and "player" say nothing (that I saw) about ownership+control when those words are used in reference to a card. Also, "your" is the only context I have ever heard anyone even talk about the distinction between ownership and control. I'm fairly certain I've seen Razor/Drawn Sword used against someone's character banded in by their opponent with no flag thrown as being an illegal play (which it should be if you are correct).

For consistency's sake, I hope you are correct and the REG entries are just missing that information; however, there is nothing currently that I can see in the rules that says anything but "your" should be treated as requiring ownership+control.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 02:43:40 PM by browarod »

Offline Red Warrior

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 02:47:57 PM »
+3
From the REG:

Your
Several cards in Redemption® refer to cards that are “your” cards (e.g., your Priest, your Heroes, your demons, your warrior-class Evil Character). For a card to be considered “your” card, you must be the owner of the card as well as have control of the card.

If this is to apply to "Opponent's", "Player's", "His/Her", these should at least be listed in the "Your" entry... if not given individual "See Entry under 'Your' for details".

Or perhaps explained in the "Control" section? (Note: there is currently no "temporary control" entry though it is referred to in the "Control" entry).
-Joey

Red was always playable :)

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 02:55:44 PM »
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From the REG:

Your
Several cards in Redemption® refer to cards that are “your” cards (e.g., your Priest, your Heroes, your demons, your warrior-class Evil Character). For a card to be considered “your” card, you must be the owner of the card as well as have control of the card.

If this is to apply to "Opponent's", "Player's", "His/Her", these should at least be listed in the "Your" entry... if not given individual "See Entry under 'Your' for details".

Or perhaps explained in the "Control" section? (Note: there is currently no "temporary control" entry though it is referred to in the "Control" entry).

Those are some good points. Hopefully they can be updated in an upcoming release of the REG.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 03:25:15 PM »
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I've added clarifying language to the definition of "opponent" for the upcoming REG update.

Can you point out examples of how this applies to "player's"? All the cards I find that use "player's" are referencing locations (hand, territory, discard pile, deck, etc.) and not cards.

There is no entry for His/Hers in the REG and I don't think we need one. I'm open to suggestions on how to integrate that into the definition of Your though.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 03:33:41 PM »
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All the cards I find that use "player's" are referencing locations (hand, territory, discard pile, deck, etc.) and not cards.

In that case, it's probably not necessary, though it might not be completely unwarranted, just for the sake of completeness (who knows what kind of verbiage could get past us in playtesting someday?  ;)).

There is no entry for His/Hers in the REG and I don't think we need one. I'm open to suggestions on how to integrate that into the definition of Your though.

It could just be a note in the "Your" entry. Then we could add an entry for his (do we ever use "his or her" on any cards? I know that most if not all cards say his) that redirects to Your.
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Offline Red Warrior

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 03:50:27 PM »
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Can you point out examples of how this applies to "player's"? All the cards I find that use "player's" are referencing locations (hand, territory, discard pile, deck, etc.) and not cards.

Then we could add an entry for his (do we ever use "his or her" on any cards? I know that most if not all cards say his that redirects to Your.

Here are some examples from an excel search...

KotW (Priests)
Evil Characters here are protected from effect, and may be removed during holder's preparation phase only. While an Evil Character is here, protect holder from being forced to block with another player's Characters.

Reckless Endangerment
Place on a Hero. Negate that Hero's special ability while this card remains on that Hero. If that Hero is discarded, its holder must discard another of his Characters in play.

Ram with Two Horns
Discard a Babylonian.  Protected from capture.  Opponent must set aside X of his characters (limit 3) for two turns. May band to a Persian.
-Joey

Red was always playable :)

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 04:39:18 PM »
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I know we use "his" the question was do we ever use "his or hers". I know we don't use just "hers" ever. So I was wondering if "hers" was even necessary (after all, my sister rarely plays, and Marti is getting out of the game...;))
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Offline Red Warrior

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Re: "Opposing"
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 05:07:12 PM »
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lol... No I was just posting the only three results I found for an entire excel search, not necessarily trying to make a point with any of them. I don't think "his/her" will ever be necessary, most cards can simply be dealt with in terms of "that player's" or "his" if we're pressed for space.

So I guess if any of the girls in my playground get targeted by Ram with Two Horns... well, we will cross that bridge when we come to it, haha ;)
-Joey

Red was always playable :)

 


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