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Author Topic: choosing opponent's Hero(es)  (Read 1533 times)

Offline joel_f

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choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« on: January 06, 2013, 02:32:08 AM »
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For cards like Lies or Disuading Speech, is this considered an exchange effect (i.e. I'm exchanging the Hero(es) my opponent chose to make a rescue attempt with those of my own choice)? If not, how do these cards work?
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 02:56:37 AM »
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you got it right
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 08:28:52 AM »
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Quote from: joel_f on January 06, 2013, 02:32:08 AM
For cards like Lies or Disuading Speech, is this considered an exchange effect (i.e. I'm exchanging the Hero(es) my opponent chose to make a rescue attempt with those of my own choice)? If not, how do these cards work?

This is generally true, but it is not an Exchange ability, since this is a different defined Redemption ability.
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Offline joel_f

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 09:48:03 AM »
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ah got it. It works similar to, but is not defined as, an "exchange" ability. Thanks.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 10:08:58 AM »
+1
It's actually a combination of a withdraw ability and a present ability.
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Offline joel_f

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 10:52:59 AM »
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ok thanks!
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 08:52:48 PM »
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Quote from: Gabe on January 06, 2013, 10:08:58 AM
It's actually a combination of a withdraw ability and a present ability.

I actually hadn't thought of it that way before, but that makes perfect sense and is logical.  So protection from withdraw would protect from that part of a CTR ability, if I'm reading that right?

Also, the current ruling is that it does not cause Special Initiative, so long as another hero is added to battle, correct?  Or was that being worked on for the new REG...I honestly can't remember what the current rule is (if it was hammered out).
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Offline Gabe

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 09:19:23 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on January 06, 2013, 08:52:48 PM
Also, the current ruling is that it does not cause Special Initiative, so long as another hero is added to battle, correct?

That is correct.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 11:25:54 PM »
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man still trying to get this one.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM »
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Quote from: Gabe on January 06, 2013, 10:08:58 AM
It's actually a combination of a withdraw ability and a present ability.

IIRC, this is somewhat true, in that they are similar abilities, but I thought in the new REG, we got rid of abilities that were combinations of other abilities...which means CtR is just that: a CTR ability, and nothing else. Also, present typically allows the person who controls the character to choose who to bring in, whilst these particular cards allow the player who uses them to choose, so I don't think it even really functions like a present. I'd have to review the new REG which I can't do at present, but AFAIK, an ability that stops withdraw abilities and/or present abilities would not necessarily stop Choose Opponent abilities.

I do agree that Choose Opponent abilities do not cause special initiative.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
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Quote from: Professoralstad on January 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
I do agree that Choose Opponent abilities do not cause special initiative.

Quickly, because I honestly can't remember, if there is a CO ability and there are no legal targets to bring it, does it currently go off?  The literal reading of the ability would say that the character is withdrawn and then another character is chosen.  Just trying to make sure I've got this one right in my head.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 10:07:36 PM »
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Quote from: Professoralstad on January 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
I'd have to review the new REG which I can't do at present, but AFAIK, an ability that stops withdraw abilities and/or present abilities would not necessarily stop Choose Opponent abilities.
So, in other words you can still use a choose the rescuer ability on Asahel, right?
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Offline joel_f

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 01:48:27 PM »
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On a much easier note, if such a card is played after some enhancements have been played on the Hero, what happens to the enhancements?
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 06:46:08 PM »
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If the new Character is of the same brigade, they jump to that Character. If not, they are Discarded.
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Offline joel_f

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 07:58:47 PM »
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ah thanks, had thought they went out since enhancements are played on Heros and the Hero was being withdrawn, but good to know.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 08:21:07 PM »
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Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on January 16, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on January 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
I'd have to review the new REG which I can't do at present, but AFAIK, an ability that stops withdraw abilities and/or present abilities would not necessarily stop Choose Opponent abilities.
So, in other words you can still use a choose the rescuer ability on Asahel, right?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 09:48:41 PM »
+1
Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on January 20, 2013, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on January 16, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
Quote from: Professoralstad on January 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
I'd have to review the new REG which I can't do at present, but AFAIK, an ability that stops withdraw abilities and/or present abilities would not necessarily stop Choose Opponent abilities.
So, in other words you can still use a choose the rescuer ability on Asahel, right?
No, you may not. Jordan was incorrect with his AFAIK. The elders discussed and concluded that Choose the Opponent abilities are a combination of withdraw and present when a character is in battle. The subsequent ruling can be found in post #36 on this thread. It also reflects the ruling on special initiative. Both of those entries have been updated in our working version of the REG. Expect the updated PDF REG 1.0.1 to be released no later than March 1st, probably sooner.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: choosing opponent's Hero(es)
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2013, 11:59:06 PM »
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Gabe is correct. I had forgotten that discussion, but I agreed with him then. Sorry for the confusion.
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