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Author Topic: Remnant Soul and Son of God  (Read 2092 times)

Offline SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Remnant Soul and Son of God
« on: August 14, 2019, 12:56:00 PM »
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If I have Remnant soul come out and I take a good hero from opponent, than I make a rescue attempt and the opponent plays Son of God on the Remnant soul, it immediately stops the rescue correct and the hero goes back to the opponent's territory?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:35:14 PM by SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2019, 02:56:02 PM »
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If the hero you’re rescuing with is the opponent’s hero you took, then yes.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2019, 03:24:04 PM »
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I'm not 100% certain, but I was under the impression that the Hero would stay in battle until the battle completed and would then return to the opponent's territory instead of yours during battle resolution.

I'm pretty sure we discussed this previously, but I don't recall the conclusion that was reached.
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Offline SEB

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2019, 03:55:47 PM »
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If you are playing a newer SoG, wouldnt it negate Remnant's return ability? Is that what you are referring to Guardian?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2019, 03:59:59 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on August 14, 2019, 03:24:04 PM
I'm not 100% certain, but I was under the impression that the Hero would stay in battle until the battle completed and would then return to the opponent's territory instead of yours during battle resolution.

I'm pretty sure we discussed this previously, but I don't recall the conclusion that was reached.

What current rule would this be based upon?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2019, 04:04:04 PM »
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Quote from: SEB on August 14, 2019, 03:55:47 PM
If you are playing a newer SoG, wouldnt it negate Remnant's return ability? Is that what you are referring to Guardian?

No he’s referring to it being in the battle phase. Remnant’s take ability is effectively CBN once it passes the phase in which the take ability occurred as the return of the hero is tied to the take ability (which is an instant ability and not an on-going one). Marcus already ruled this in a previous post found here:

http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/moses-cow-ann-remnant-ls/msg595231/#msg595231
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2019, 04:47:54 PM »
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I won't quote the REG directly right now since I'm on my phone, but under take and give there's a bullet point which states that once the duration of the take has expired, the Permanent Control List (PCL) is updated. An update to the PCL does not relocate the Hero in battle, only who has permanent control. Then, during battle resolution, characters remaining in battle return to the territory if the player with permanent control.

It doesn't look like it's explicitly stated one way or the other anywhere, but I think the key is that a permanent control switch that is not the result of a give or take does not affect the location of characters in battle.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Remnant Soul and Son of God
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2019, 05:01:42 PM »
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The quote in question:
Quote from: REG pg 77
A take or give effect is permanent, unless a duration is specified. If a duration is specified, when the duration is reached the Permanent Controller List is updated.

And the PCL entry:
Permanent Controller List
While a card is under the permanent control of any player, it maintains a list of the players that have had permanent control, as well as the effect that gave that player permanent control. The first entry is always the owner, even if it was initially under the permanent control of another player. If an effect changes permanent control to a new controller (as opposed to reverting to a previous controller), it adds an entry to the end of the list. If the effect has a duration, when the duration ends, the corresponding entry is removed, and if it was the entry at the end of the list permanent control reverts to the player in the entry currently at the end of the list. If an effect specifically reverts permanent control to a previous controller, it reverts to the indicated entry and removes entries after it. If an effect specifically reverts permanent control to the owner, the list reverts to the first entry and removes all other entries.


I assume that because you can still attack with an opponent's hero (usually by banding to them), even though they have control again it doesn't kick the hero out of battle. I would assume it works the same if, say, you used Corrupt Earth to discard Nic's Teachings from a hero in battle. If it were a TC hero in a territory, they would go back, since you can't usually have an opponent-controlled character in your territory.

EDIT: not sure why the second quote isn't working.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 05:11:28 PM by Bobbert »
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