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This came up in a game.

My opponent used Emperor Augustus to return my Rhoda who was set aside with Provisions to my territory.  Does Rhoda still gain the ability from Provisions even though she returned early?  Neither my opponent or I were sure.

I find nothing in the REG or Rulebook that says Rhoda doesn't gain the ability from Provisions.  Provisions has 2 sentences.  The first sets aside the character.  The 2nd is triggered "On return" and gives the ability to the hero.  Augustus says "return," so wouldn't Provisions still work?

Emperor Augustus

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 10 / 11 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: All N.T. humans in set aside areas must return to owner's territories. All opponents with a N.T. human in territory must discard a card from hand without using it.

Provisions

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set Hero aside for 2 turns. On return, holder may draw 2 cards and may choose the Evil Character his opponent's uses to block Hero's next rescue attempt. • Errata: Set Hero aside for 2 turns. On return, holder may draw 2 cards, and hero gains the special ability (for hero’s next rescue attempt only) “Holder may choose the Evil Character opponent uses to block.”

Kirk

Why not?  They are two separate abilities.  Rhoda fulfilled the "On Return" so it should still work.

And I am a judge myself in tournaments and it is not just because I would like her to, although that would be nice.  It would keep my opponent from making me waste provisions over and over! 

Kirk

Rhoda already paid the Set aside cost.  Augustus messed with the normal flow of cards and made her return early.  I still paid the cost by physically setting her aside and I met the triggering condition for the ability to work, therefore I should gain the ability.

Kirk

Quote

"On return" means IMO "on return after 2 turns".

It's implied that the Hero must be set-aside two turns to gain the ability. Seriously...we can't fit every single exception and clarifier on the actual cards. 

If not, Witness to Creation might be used again.

I would agree that it is similar to Trembling Demon.  And we know how TD is ruled, so my example should work.

Kirk

Because it says "Upon Return" rather than after X turns. I would say you get the whole shebang.

Additionally I would say that this scenario is going to happen rather infrequently, I mean there's only Emp Aug and like one other card that return from set-aside.

Well yes, that's all fine and good,but you're not returning the hero, it's being forced out of set-aside. I think in the end that quote there will be the basis of saying and if the number of turns is not met, regardless of how the hero returned no ability is gained.

I think Complaint of Moses supports your position. It specifies that abilites are lost on return and Augustus does no such thing. If Augustus returns a hero early from set aside and they are gaining 1/1 per turn, I assume they keep everything gained up to that point as well. For something like provisions or witness to creation, it's a nasty combo, but short of an errata (on Augustus or Provisions), it looks like it should work to me.

What's the logic?

The difference with your example, everytribe, is that there is a game rule that prevents you from using such "logic". You are never allowed to mess with your opponent's LoB unless a card specifically says so.

Bill was quoting happyjosiah to refute his question.  Bill was not using that as an argument.

 Ah, I didn't know that.   

As I also mention in this thread, I was sure that there was some provision in the REG for this scenario (pun intended).

As I voted on the other thread, I believe you cannot gain OR use any special ability from a set-aside if that set-aside has a duration and the character is returned from set-aside prior to the expiration of the duration.

As I also mention in this thread, I was sure that there was some provision in the REG for this scenario (pun intended).

As I voted on the other thread, I believe you cannot gain OR use any special ability from a set-aside if that set-aside has a duration and the character is returned from set-aside prior to the expiration of the duration.

Don't mind me I was just venting a bit after judging a big regional tournament. If this ruling question would have come up. It would have been an easy one to rule. I have been told since I have been playing the game that to gain the set aside ability that charactor has to be set aside for the whole time. I was told by Chris, Bryon and Kevin that it is a game rule. It makes sense and is logical. It would be no argument. I wouldn't take time to find it in the REG's (It might not be in the REG's. If its not they should put it in) and I couldn't take time to let the play testers board rule on it.

When I judge I take advantage of the brain trust in attendance. I could be wrong when I make a ruling so if someone doesn't agree with the ruling I get back up. With Chris Bany, Tim Maly, Gabe Isabell, Justin Alstad and Matt Brinkman in the house that was easy to do. The frustrating part is that on alot of rulings their is no agreement. Its frustrating to be debating a Provisions-Emperor Augustus ruling.

The only proof I have is that I was visited by the Redemption Ruling Angel last night and he revealed to me in a vision that it doesn't work and that's how it will be ruled at Nationals.

Bill