Author Topic: Refresh my memory: May be used twice? (Read 4970 times)

D-man · « **on:** July 03, 2009, 11:31:43 AM »

It is my understanding that when an artifact says, "may be used twice", it can be interpreted as "may be active for two turns". Is that true with all artifacts that can be used twice? The possible exceptions I was thinking of were The Silver Trumpets and I AM Healing. If the "may be used twice" refers to the length of time in which they can be active, then can their abilities be used any number of times during the course of two turns? Or is the limit "may be used twice" stipulating the number of times the action can be preformed? In that case, these artifacts could be active the entire game if you wanted (provided you don't use their abilities twice). Which is it?

Thanks,

D-man

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:09:58 PM »

Cards like The Silver Trumpets and I Am Healing get a "use" at the time that you choose to use the ability. Simply having them turned face up for a turn doesn't take up a use if you don't activate the SA.

There are cards that say "may be used twice" that get a use simply by having them turned face up. Some examples are Burial Shroud, Assyrian Tribute and Carcasses.

JDS · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:27:47 PM »

What about Wastelands (Selected opponent must place a Site from his territory beneath deck. May be used twice per game.)? It's worded similar to both I Am Healing (Holder may heal all of holder’s Heroes in play. May be used twice.) and Captured Ark (Upon activation, each opponent must select one active Artifact in own territory and shuffle it back into their draw pile. Each shuffled Artifact is negated. May be used twice.), is it used on demand or when activated?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:37:46 PM »

I'm pretty sure Wastelands in on demand.

sk · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:49:31 PM »

I've always played it as happening on activation. There's no "may" or timing specification, so I figured it defaulted to immediate.

D-man · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2009, 01:03:56 PM »

Quote from: sk on July 03, 2009, 12:49:31 PM

I've always played it as happening on activation. There's no "may" or timing specification, so I figured it defaulted to immediate.

That's how I've always played it, too. Since it says "must", it has to happen right away.

Thanks Gabe, that's what I was looking for. That's kinda what I thought. I just needed confirmation.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2009, 01:27:21 PM »

The question about Wastelands was asked when it was released. The answer at that time is that is was used upon activation.

JDS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:06:37 PM »

I'm fine with it either way, but I would like a definitive answer before Nationals as it's not really clear in the REG.

sk · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:59:39 PM »

It sounds like the ruling Gabe got was from an official source.

SirNobody · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM »

Hey,

I'm going to throw out a general rule that Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are not optional and do not specify a delayed trigger must be applied upon activation. Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are optional can be applied at any time their owner chooses so long as that time satisfies any other existing requirements.

Covenant of Noah and Unsuccessful are played as optional despite not containing the word may in their abilities (we should probably give them errata adding the word may to those two cards).

The other card that piques my interest is I Am Creator which has a non-optional instant ability that by my understanding is the only card (not counting Covenant of Noah and Unsuccessful for reason mentioned above) that currently does not follow the general rule specified above. Shouldn't I Am Creator only be usable upon activation?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

D-man · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2009, 10:32:10 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM

I'm going to throw out a general rule...

I thought you meant you were getting rid of the rule for a second, but when I read the rest of your post, I realized that you meaning that you were saying that it should be a general rule.

I Am Creator seems different to me. It doesn't actually say to activate an ability, so it isn't quite the same as Wastelands. It just says "If...". Could that be interpreted as "Any time..."? Just throwing that out there.

crustpope · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2009, 12:52:22 AM »

I have always seen it used as a triggered ability. Someone makes a rescue with one hero in their territory and when it is in the field of battle, they use Iam creator to search for another one.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2009, 12:56:23 AM »

i as well

CactusRob · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2009, 08:37:30 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM

Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are not optional and do not specify a delayed trigger must be applied upon activation. Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are optional can be applied at any time their owner chooses so long as that time satisfies any other existing requirements.

I agree. In other words, these are not "on demand" but must be use during the Prep Phase that the artifact was activated or remained activated. Even so, I think anytime during the Prep Phase is okay. I.E. I change my face up artifact, go on to something else and then come back to it prior to starting my battle.

Also, the rulebook states:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. Once such an artifact, covenant, or curse is activated, it must be counted as having been used. This is true even if other events duplicate the effect of the artifact, covenant, or curse during the turn.

This is one reason such artifacts are not "on demand" but must be used when activated.

The Schaef · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2009, 09:09:06 AM »

In general, I would agree that is the case, and if it's not, it ought to be.

I'll be mourning I Am Creator, though, if the "If" phrase is only a condition and not a trigger; that card made my red offense very happy.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2009, 09:54:37 AM »

So I am Creator now no longer works during battle if I make a RA with my only hero in play?

Kirk

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2009, 10:34:52 AM »

that doesnt sound right to me...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2009, 12:49:08 PM »

It sounds much more like the wording on Unknown Nation than Burial Shroud. I think that it will remain a trigger rather than upon activation.

JDS · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2009, 01:06:43 PM »

Can Wastelands be used twice in the same prep phase?

The Guardian · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2009, 01:12:14 PM »

Since you cannot activate it twice in same prep phase, I do not believe you can use it twice in same prep phase.

CactusRob · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2009, 07:59:03 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on July 07, 2009, 01:12:14 PM

Since you cannot activate it twice in same prep phase, I do not believe you can use it twice in same prep phase.

I agree. It's once per turn.

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2009, 11:57:59 PM »

Repeating Kirk's question...

So I am Creator now no longer works during battle if I make a RA with my only hero in play?

crustpope · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2009, 01:22:35 AM »

Quote from: redemptioncousin on August 23, 2009, 11:57:59 PM

Repeating Kirk's question...

So I am Creator now no longer works during battle if I make a RA with my only hero in play?

Yeah, R Cuz used that play to fish his deck for important heroes to beat me with! I think you should outlaw that play..or at least outlaw it when he uses it agaisnt me

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2009, 03:47:04 AM »

Quote from: redemptioncousin on August 23, 2009, 11:57:59 PM

Repeating Kirk's question...

So I am Creator now no longer works during battle if I make a RA with my only hero in play?

That seems to be what Rob and Tim were saying on the first page.

News:

Author Topic: Refresh my memory: May be used twice? (Read 4970 times)

The Schaef