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Proverbs 22_14 (L)

Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: This card counts as two Lost Souls. It must be rescued twice. • Errata: (Treat special ability as an identifier.) • Identifiers: This card counts as two Lost Souls. It must be rescued twice. • Verse: Proverbs 22:14 • Availability: Limited booster packs (Rare)

It has bothered me, for quite a while now, that both variants of the "Lost Souls" card have had their text treated as an identifier rather than a special ability. There is at least one card that references these souls specifically (Abram/Abraham) as having special abilities, and I'm sure that, looking through some of the early cards, there's at least one or two others that do the same thing. Regardless of that though, it was clearly intended as a special ability, and I'm not really sure why it's not being treated as such. It might be cumbersome to decide what to do if a half-rescued LS is negated, but there are three options (including just doing what would normally be done with a half-rescued soul), and I don't feel like it would all that bad a decision. Can I at least get thoughts or opinions on this?

It would have been a much better idea to make them CBN, especially given that with no SA, I can have three in a T1 deck this way.

I think there's a cov from AW that also mentions them as not being negated.

Quote from: lp670sv on September 26, 2011, 04:29:08 PM

Okay let's treat it as a special ability. I throw up the lost soul that negates special abilities. You already rescued half. What happens? If you negate it and it only counts as one, you already rescued it so it goes to LOR. But LOR is out of play and negator lost soul only targets in play. Does it go back to being the two liner? Do you get credit for both?

Strictly speaking, cards going out of play negated don't un-negate themselves (otherwise you'd have several cases of infinite loops) after leaving play.

For instance, if the Anti-Burial leaves play negated, it does not protect.

alright but what if they already rescued the first half does it then leave play immediately or do they have to rescue it again to get credit for the 1 soul? this was just easier.

It would have been a much better idea to make them CBN, especially given that with no SA, I can have three in a T1 deck this way.

I think there's a cov from AW that also mentions them as not being negated.

Except it DOES have an SA. It's SA is to treat the SA as an identifier (i.e. CBN)...

I agree that making it just have a CBN SA would be easier, or else add to the identifier to say (...limit one copy of Lost Souls per 50 cards in deck).

Wait so can I really have three in my T1 deck?

No. Unless your deck is 150+. Again, the SA is "treat the SA as an identifier".

Identifiers didn't exist in the first couple sets of the game, so cards like Abram/Abraham had to specifically mention not to negate the ability on the Lost Souls cards. After identifiers were created, the playtesters apparently deemed it simpler to make the ability an identifier (and, thus, inherently "cannot be negated") rather than continue to have to put "except the Lost Souls card" on any abilities dealing with negating/preventing/etc. lost soul special abilities. Newer cards (like the negate lost soul abilities LS from Disciples) were written with the change to identifiers clearly established so changing it now would just cause a bunch of problems.

This is accurate.  I also agree with the "other Prof" that you can NOT have more than 1 of the LSs card in a T1 deck (unless it is 100 or more cards).

If I'm treating a SA as an identifier can I still target it as an SA for the purpose of treating it as an identifier?

if "Treat special ability as an identifier" is an ability, doesn't that still make it negateable?

This would seem to be a problem.

just make it a SA with a CBN errata.

This would seem to be a solution.

Really, I think the only way to solve this problem is to just ban Mayhem.