Author Topic: Duplicate Question (Read 1776 times)

Crashfach2002 · « **on:** April 13, 2013, 08:46:29 AM »

Hey guys, I don't mean to bring up bad memories or start a riot but I am behind on some rules and wanted some clarifications.

This is the official decision on the matter of creating duplicates.

Gabe's Quote
"Players are restricted from performing optional game rules that would result in a player controlling multiple copies of the same unique character. A card is protected from any ability that would cause that card to become a second copy of a unique character controlled by a single player. If a player does end up controlling multiple copies of a unique character, all copies of that character except the original copy are discarded regardless of protection. Note: captured characters are not characters and thus do not affect these rules."

So my questions are:

1) So if I have David/King Saul in my territory, then is the David/King Saul in my deck is protected from being targeted by my Samuel or does it go to hand?

2) My opponent has a unique character in play, and I attack with Woman at the Well. Can I target that same character or is any unique character in my opponent's territory protected from being targeted?

3) What in the world happens to unique characters if I get some with Samaritan Water Jar?

By the way, I'm sorry if you don't know what the special abilities are, I don't know where to find them anymore. So I guess this could be question 4!

browarod · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2013, 10:17:09 AM »

1) It would be protected from being put into play, you could still add it to hand.

2) I would think that unique characters they already control would be protected from even being chosen.

3) I'm not 100% sure but I believe that would fall under the "if a player does end up controlling multiple copies of a unique character" clause and the ones set aside with SWJ would be discarded.

4) Ken has a spreadsheet available on the Three Lions Gaming website, not entirely sure where, though.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2013, 10:34:32 AM »

I am working on a solution for question 4 as well.

Regarding Gabe's quote, I thought the player who controlled duplicate characters got to pick which one was discarded?

Redoubter · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2013, 06:14:36 PM »

Agree with Browarod on all three accounts, with some trepidation regarding the third. The first 2 fall under the "optional" events, essentially, while the third does not and can be one of the few cases to result in duplicates. I'm almost certain that is how it would be ruled, but would definitely want some other input on that to be sure.

Gabe · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:01:28 PM »

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 13, 2013, 08:46:29 AM

1) So if I have David/King Saul in my territory, then is the David/King Saul in my deck is protected from being targeted by my Samuel or does it go to hand?

Samuel - Negate play abilities. You may search deck for King Saul or David and put it in play to draw 2. May band to a male I Samuel Hero. Cannot be negated.

There is nothing in Samuel's ability that allows you to add King Saul or David to hand. It says to put them into play. If you cannot do that then they stay in the deck.

There was a period of time a while back where some REPs misapplied the default condition for search (a searched for card goes to hand when no other location is specified). I've heard it said that if you can't put the searched for card where it's supposed to go then you can choose to put it in hand. We discussed this among the elders to ensure we all understood this the same way. That is simply not true. We do what the card says. If we cannot, then we do not get to choose to do something else.

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 13, 2013, 08:46:29 AM

2) My opponent has a unique character in play, and I attack with Woman at the Well. Can I target that same character or is any unique character in my opponent's territory protected from being targeted?

This is the same as Samuel in your last question, only you're searching another players deck for a character instead of your own. It's still not allowed.

Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 13, 2013, 08:46:29 AM

3) What in the world happens to unique characters if I get some with Samaritan Water Jar?

If duplicate characters are created by a Water Jar then the controller of those characters gets to choose which one(s) to discard.

browarod · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2013, 10:19:42 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on April 13, 2013, 09:01:28 PM

Samuel - Negate play abilities. You may search deck for King Saul or David and put it in play to draw 2. May band to a male I Samuel Hero. Cannot be negated.

There is nothing in Samuel's ability that allows you to add King Saul or David to hand. It says to put them into play. If you cannot do that then they stay in the deck.

There was a period of time a while back where some REPs misapplied the default condition for search (a searched for card goes to hand when no other location is specified). I've heard it said that if you can't put the searched for card where it's supposed to go then you can choose to put it in hand. We discussed this among the elders to ensure we all understood this the same way. That is simply not true. We do what the card says. If we cannot, then we do not get to choose to do something else.

I totally get where you're coming from, but I'm curious: Doesn't the fact that it's a "may" with an "and" mean you could choose to search and not put it in play (even if you weren't protected from putting them in play)? "Search" and "put in play" are both valid abilities individually, and while it's clear that the cost to draw 1 is both abilities together, it seems to me the wording allows for the search to carry out without the put in play if you don't care about paying (or can't pay) that cost.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:12:51 AM »

Yes it is a may ability but its also cost and effect.

You may do x to do y means y doesn't happen u less you do x

In this case x=search for David or king Saul and put them in play
And y= draw 2

Gabe · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:13:11 AM »

"Put in play" is an instruction for what you're to do with the searched for card. It's linked directly to the special ability "search", not an individual special ability by itself.

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:55:42 AM »

Quote from: jbeers285 on April 14, 2013, 11:12:51 AM

Yes it is a may ability but its also cost and effect.

You may do x to do y means y doesn't happen u less you do x

In this case x=search for David or king Saul and put them in play
And y= draw 2

Thanks for confirming something that wasn't in doubt by my post. I already said it was clear that the cost is both together, lol, I never said you could search, not put in play, but still draw.

Quote from: Gabe on April 14, 2013, 11:13:11 AM

"Put in play" is an instruction for what you're to do with the searched for card. It's linked directly to the special ability "search", not an individual special ability by itself.

So "put in play" is always an instruction, never a standalone ability? If Samuel instead said "Search deck for David or King Solomon and you may put it in play..." would I be correct or would they still be linked?

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:16:41 PM »

Quote from: browarod on April 14, 2013, 11:55:42 AM

So "put in play" is always an instruction, never a standalone ability? If Samuel instead said "Search deck for David or King Solomon and you may put it in play..." would I be correct or would they still be linked?

That is not how we word special abilities in this era of Redemption and I don't find any existing cards with that wording. If you'd like to talk about things that don't matter and don't exist I'd much rather discuss the relationship between Master Yoda and Chewbacca.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2013, 04:37:20 PM »

Quote from: browarod on April 14, 2013, 11:55:42 AM

So "put in play" is always an instruction, never a standalone ability? If Samuel instead said "Search deck for David or King Solomon and you may put it in play..." would I be correct or would they still be linked?

That wording would do what you said, browarod. However, as Gabe eloquently alluded, no cards do (or will) have the ability worded that way, thus they would end up being linked.

browarod · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2013, 05:09:22 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on April 14, 2013, 04:37:20 PM

Quote from: browarod on April 14, 2013, 11:55:42 AM
So "put in play" is always an instruction, never a standalone ability? If Samuel instead said "Search deck for David or King Solomon and you may put it in play..." would I be correct or would they still be linked?

That wording would do what you said, browarod. However, as Gabe eloquently alluded, no cards do (or will) have the ability worded that way, thus they would end up being linked.

That's what I wanted to know, thanks!

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Author Topic: Duplicate Question (Read 1776 times)

Crashfach2002

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browarod

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Lamborghini_diablo

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Redoubter

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Gabe

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browarod

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jbeers285

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Gabe

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browarod

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Gabe

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YourMathTeacher

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browarod

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