Author Topic: Quick Tartaroes Question (Read 2177 times)

Gohanick · « **on:** August 09, 2010, 10:15:49 PM »

when i beat my opponent's demons in battle by the numbers, do I capture the demons with tartaroes?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2010, 10:47:38 PM »

Yes. You Discarded them.

Gohanick · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2010, 10:58:42 PM »

i have a few people arguing that the word 'discards' refers to abilities that discard

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:00:12 PM »

Nope. High Priest's Palace protects Phars and Sads from Discard by game rule. The word "discard" by itself refers to all forms of Discard. Be aware, however, when Wandering Spirit is in battle, no Demons will be Discarded.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:25:11 PM »

I've been told the opposite, that if Tartaros is out, your demons you discard go there instead of going under due to wandering spirit.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:37:58 PM »

you guys better figure this out b4 day after tomorrow...blah

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:39:51 PM »

Bryon Hake has ruled that Tartaros out-does wandering spirit, thus demons go to to tartaros instead of the bottom of deck.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:45:59 PM »

He ruled incorrectly. You have to Discard the demons for them to go to Tartaros, WS stops them from being Discarded.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2010, 11:53:49 PM »

I believe Pol is correct on this one, as WS's ability has the "instead" clause. SBecause of that clause, the discard never actually happens and they're instead placed on the bottom, thus Tartoros never triggers.

sk · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2010, 12:16:44 AM »

Not so, Pol. It was ruled that the abilities are identical, so it defaults to which one entered play first -- Tartaros. Since Tim Maly agreed with Bryon, I'd believe it.

Here's the thread with Bryon's ruling... http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=18244.0

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2010, 12:28:21 AM »

See? I knew I wasn't crazy!

CJSports · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2010, 10:18:51 AM »

I don't agree on that thread because WS is a replace ability it would never have been discarded and tartaros is not a instead it just says when you d/c, capture etc. So even though tartaros comes into effect first wandering spirit sneeks in there and pulls them beneath deck before tartaros can take them because they are not actually in d/c yet.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2010, 10:48:43 AM »

Quote from: CJSports on August 10, 2010, 10:18:51 AM

I don't agree on that thread because WS is a replace ability it would never have been discarded and tartaros is not a instead it just says when you d/c, capture etc. So even though tartaros comes into effect first wandering spirit sneeks in there and pulls them beneath deck before tartaros can take them because they are not actually in d/c yet.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2010, 10:57:41 AM »

Wandering Spirit

Special Ability: Reveal the bottom card of deck. If it is a demon, put it in your territory. May band to a generic demon. If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead. Cannot be negated.

Tartaros

Special Ability: All demons that holder captures, discards, or has in Land of Bondage are placed in Tartaros. Release one demon to holder's territory from Tartaros when one of holder's demons wins in battle.

So for WS, if my demon is discarded, I place it beneath deck instead. Tartaros doesn't say instead, but the instead is implied (and would assuredly be there if Tartaros were made today). To me, they seem to be essentially the same wording, so it goes to the ability active first. That would be Tartaros.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2010, 10:59:36 AM »

Tartaros doesn't have an instead. Until it gets one I'll contest the ruling.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2010, 11:04:27 AM »

So, your contention would be that the demons are actually discarded (gone to the discard pile) then brought back to Tartaros?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2010, 12:53:34 PM »

Gohanick · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2010, 01:12:57 PM »

If I use gates of hell the bottom of my deck and its a demon while I have tartaros out, does it go there or to territory? gates says to place in territory

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2010, 01:38:11 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 10, 2010, 12:53:34 PM

Yes.

So would you also agree then that Hez. Signet Ring stops an opponents Tartaros (if the demons are discarded)?

No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile.

If you think they actually hit the discard pile first, then you would have to search the discard pile, right? You can still search for the top card of something.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2010, 02:17:19 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 10, 2010, 01:38:11 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 10, 2010, 12:53:34 PM
Yes.

So would you also agree then that Hez. Signet Ring stops an opponents Tartaros (if the demons are discarded)?

No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile.

If you think they actually hit the discard pile first, then you would have to search the discard pile, right? You can still search for the top card of something.

Oh snap..... Never thought of that.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:50:04 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 10, 2010, 01:38:11 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 10, 2010, 12:53:34 PM
Yes.

So would you also agree then that Hez. Signet Ring stops an opponents Tartaros (if the demons are discarded)?

No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile.

If you think they actually hit the discard pile first, then you would have to search the discard pile, right? You can still search for the top card of something.

Yes.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2010, 05:16:11 PM »

I think if one player's abilities would activate at the same time the player should be able to choose, kind of like if I band in a bunch of characters at the same time I get to choose the order.

sk · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:51:13 PM »

Tartaros' ability is ongoing. It doesn't jut suddenly activate when a demon gets pwn'd. Since it was active before WS's ongoing ability, it takes precedence.

Gohanick · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2010, 09:02:42 PM »

anyone know how gates vs. your tartaros works? does it go to territory?

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Author Topic: Quick Tartaroes Question (Read 2177 times)

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