Author Topic: ItB vs Triggers  (Read 919 times)

Offline Praeceps

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ItB vs Triggers
« on: October 18, 2015, 02:31:28 PM »
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Okay the situation is thus: Music leader is in battle when the EC plays 2kHorses and then DoU, does Music Leader get to search? The question arises from whether the Interrupt would stop Music Leader's trigger.

My questions are these:

1) ML has a condition and a search for its ability. Since search is an instant ability I'm going to assume that ML is affected by ItB because of the ongoing nature of the conditional trigger, correct?

2a) If 1 is wrong, then what is being interrupted by the ItB ability?

2b) If 1 is correct, why do you get no search for ML, but still get to draw 2 off of Gifts when the are worded similarly?

3) Would the situation change if another good card had been specified to have been played between ML and 2kH?

Pertinent abilities:

Two Thousand Horses - Holder may interrupt the battle, draw 2 cards from the top of own draw pile, and play the next enhancement.

Music Leader - If an opponent uses a draw or search ability (except on a musician), you may search deck or discard pile for up to two good cards that involve music.

Gifts of the Magi - Each time an opponent draws a card because of a special ability on a character or enhancement, holder may draw a card.
Just one more thing...

Offline Redoubter

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Re: ItB vs Triggers
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 03:27:16 PM »
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Quote from: REG 3.0.0 Triggered Abilities
A triggered ability is a type of ongoing ability that is delayed until a specific scenario or game action takes place. When the given situation occurs, a triggered ability activates, and can be tied to either an instant or ongoing effect.
...
While triggered abilities are triggered by a condition or situation happening, they may not insert themselves between other abilities to resolve. Instead, they are pending until all other abilities resolve, and then the triggered event may activate.

With that in mind, a ML that is in battle is interrupted by 2KH; all triggers are 'ongoing' effects, and since it was played in battle, it would be interrupted.  While interrupted, it is temporarily undone, and thus cannot be active.  Regardless of any other effects, you cannot activate his ability based on the draw of 2KH or anything else that occurs during the interruption.  Those things happened when it wasn't active, and before it later reactivates (as per the definition of interrupt); it cannot trigger off of any draws or searches happening in-between.

Now, what if ML is in territory, or in the case of Gifts?

Quote from: REG 3.0.0 Interrupt > Special Conditions
The phrase “interrupt the battle” includes interrupting the following:
● all active ongoing abilities
● abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
● the last card played in current battle if it was played by your opponent.
Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle.

Those ongoing effects in territory are not interrupted.  However remember that, as underlined above from Triggered Abilities, these triggered abilities are pending until all other effects resolve.

Quote from: REG 3.0.0 > End the Battle > Special Conditions
If there are pending abilities when an end the battle ​ability occurs, the pending abilities never take effect.

Since they are pending abilities that are waiting for other effects to resolve, and End the Battle causes any pending abilities to "never take effect" (as we have moved to another phase), those triggers that are still pending cannot activate (they 'fizzle').  If you use 2KH and then play an End the Battle, there is no search from ML nor draw from Gifts, because those were triggered by the draw but pending, and the remaining effects ended the battle before they could complete.

TL;DR: ItB does interrupt a ML in battle, and it cannot "see" cards being drawn while interrupted because it is not active.  ML or Gifts cannot search or draw if the battle ends before they can complete, as they were pending.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 03:29:19 PM by Redoubter »

Offline Josh

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Re: ItB vs Triggers
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 03:37:09 PM »
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With that in mind, a ML that is in battle is interrupted by 2KH; all triggers are 'ongoing' effects, and since it was played in battle, it would be interrupted.  While interrupted, it is temporarily undone, and thus cannot be active.  Regardless of any other effects, you cannot activate his ability based on the draw of 2KH or anything else that occurs during the interruption.  Those things happened when it wasn't active, and before it later reactivates (as per the definition of interrupt); it cannot trigger off of any draws or searches happening in-between.

This is what I thought.  This exact scenario came up in my ROOT game last night.  It ended up not mattering, since we saw that my opponent had the Pigs LS in play and we undid my draw off of 2KH. 
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Offline Praeceps

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Re: ItB vs Triggers
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2015, 04:07:33 PM »
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Quote from: REG 3.0.0 Interrupt > Special Conditions
The phrase “interrupt the battle” includes interrupting the following:
● all active ongoing abilities
● abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
● the last card played in current battle if it was played by your opponent.
Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle.

Somehow I managed to overlook that bolded section and was the cause for my confusion. Thanks.
Just one more thing...

 


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