Author Topic: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?  (Read 941 times)

Offline Master Q

  • Trade Count: (+65)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Onward...
    • -
    • Midwest Region
Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« on: July 25, 2017, 09:38:53 PM »
0
Something I just realized when I looked at Coliseum recently- should Coliseum toss Enhancements like Sam's Edict, even though nowhere on Sam's Edict is the phrase "cannot be negated"?

Is there a written rule on abilities like this and on Seven Trumpet Sounders, those that specify specific titles or abilities? I remember pointing out that STS specify "Trumpet" rather than "trumpet", as there are no cards with "trumpet" in the title.

Coliseum: ...Toss all Enhancements played in battle that have "cannot be negated" in the special ability, or that have no special ability.

Sam's Edict: ...Cannot be negated if the only Hero in battle is Samuel or a Judge with no special ability.

Seven Trumpet Sounders: Search deck or Reserve for a card with "Trumpet" in the title. If you play an Enhancement with "Trumpet" in the title, copy its special ability. Cards with "Trumpet" in the title cannot be negated.


Basically, I'm arguing that yes, the Cannot vs cannot matters, if Trumpet vs trumpet matters (as it should).
If you were to go on a trip... where would you like to go?

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 10:26:26 AM »
+1
I believe we made that change because a word like "Trumpet" would always be capitalized in the title of a card. However, "cannot be negated" and "Cannot be negated" are the same phrase.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline sepjazzwarrior

  • Trade Count: (+30)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2283
  • The best defense is a fast offense
    • -
    • Midwest Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 10:31:26 AM »
0
So wait, why does capitalization matter for trumpet and not cannot?  either capitalization should matter or it shouldn't, it shouldn't change word to word if it matters, that's just nuts

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 10:33:57 AM »
0
Calm down--it does not matter, it simply made sense to use the capitalized "Trumpet" because that is how it would appear in card titles. We could have used "trumpet" and it would have worked just fine.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 11:22:49 AM »
+2
It's very obvious that the whole intent of Coliseum was to toss any card that had "cannot be negated" in the special ability, whether the C is capitalized or not, as it is written both ways on certain enhancements. It's grasping at straws and quite trivial and unnecessary to say Coliseum shouldn't work if the C is capitalized.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 11:39:42 AM »
0
I agree with The Guardian. Capital letters or not doesn't matter.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Master Q

  • Trade Count: (+65)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Onward...
    • -
    • Midwest Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 12:21:48 PM »
-1
It's very obvious that the whole intent of Coliseum was to toss any card that had "cannot be negated" in the special ability, whether the C is capitalized or not, as it is written both ways on certain enhancements. It's grasping at straws and quite trivial and unnecessary to say Coliseum shouldn't work if the C isn't capitalized.

Fixed that for you. ;)



While I disagree on the idea that "Trumpet" vs "trumpet" doesn't matter, I do see where phrasing in abilities, such as "cannot be negated", might not be as stringent.

That said, in a game that is built entirely around precise wording, I think it's somewhat lazy to dismiss this as something that simply doesn't matter, as the whole point of quotations in these types of abilities should be to distinguish targets, and only targets that match the quotations exactly should be affected. At least, that's how I see it. :2cents:

I thought it prudent to bring up this question in order to:

A) Codify the rulings for quotations if there is none

B) Find out if there is a written rule for quotations

C) Reinforce the need for consistent language and precise wording on cards

That is all.
If you were to go on a trip... where would you like to go?

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 12:26:22 PM »
0
It's very obvious that the whole intent of Coliseum was to toss any card that had "cannot be negated" in the special ability, whether the C is capitalized or not, as it is written both ways on certain enhancements. It's grasping at straws and quite trivial and unnecessary to say Coliseum shouldn't work if the C isn't capitalized.

Fixed that for you. ;)



While I disagree on the idea that "Trumpet" vs "trumpet" doesn't matter, I do see where phrasing in abilities, such as "cannot be negated", might not be as stringent.

That said, in a game that is built entirely around precise wording, I think it's somewhat lazy to dismiss this as something that simply doesn't matter, as the whole point of quotations in these types of abilities should be to distinguish targets, and only targets that match the quotations exactly should be affected. At least, that's how I see it. :2cents:

I thought it prudent to bring up this question in order to:

A) Codify the rulings for quotations if there is none

B) Find out if there is a written rule for quotations

C) Reinforce the need for consistent language and precise wording on cards

That is all.
+1

This is was a perfectly valid question to ask and quite far from "grasping at straws".

Offline Minister Polarius

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15920
  • Grand Minister of Music and Video Games
    • -
    • East Central Region
    • Macclelland Music
Re: Coliseum "Q" - or how do quotations work?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 12:55:34 AM »
0
Capitalization moves around depending on where the words are in a sentence and are immaterial to meaning except when specifically used for emphasis (Truth v. truth is a common one). Whether a noun is singular or plural is not nearly so fluid and will always remain the same no matter where the word is in a sentence. This is indeed grasping at straws.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal