Cactus Game Design Message Boards

For cards like Captured Ark and Joseph's Silver Cup, when are they discarded following their second "use"?

I believe for cards that say "May be used twice per game", their abilities fit into two categories. You have Instant abilities, like Captured Ark and Thirty Pieces of Silver, and then you have ongoing abilities, like Burial Shroud and Joseph's Silver Cup. Besides being instant and ongoing, another difference is when some instant abilities trigger. Some trigger when activated and others trigger following an event.

I had a hard time finding anything in the old REG or on the boards that specifically stated when limited use cards are discarded, so here are my questions.

1) Do limited use artifacts with instant abilities, like Captured Ark and Thirty Pieces of Silver, get discarded immediately after the second instant ability is triggered/activated? If not, when, and why?

2) Are limited use artifacts with ongoing abilities, like Burial Shroud and Joseph's Silver Cup, discarded the turn following their second activation when you choose a different artifact to activate? If not, when, and why?

I ask because it doesn't make sense that artifacts with ongoing abilities are sometimes discarded immediately after activating a second time. This is inconsistent with how ongoing abilities work, but I have found nothing that says that they remain active and for how long.

I believe it would be consistent to say that since artifacts are ruled to activate every turn they remain face up, and that ongoing abilities are only active as long as the card is active, that limited use artifacts with ongoing abilities should remain active until the round following the turn in which they are "used" a second time. Then, you cannot re-activate the artifact, since you've used it already twice, so it is discarded when you choose to either activate a different artifact or have no active artifact. That way it gives your opponent an opportunity to negate a limited use ongoing artifact's ability during his turn.

Captured Ark: Upon activation, each opponent must select one active Artifact in own territory and shuffle it back into their draw pile. Each shuffled Artifact is negated. May be used twice.

Thirty Pieces of Silver: [Play-As] Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Hero in play at the end of battle that you blocked. Negate David's Harp. May be used once per battle and twice per game.

Burial Shroud: Holder may not make a rescue attempt or be attacked. May be used twice.

Joseph's Silver Cup: [Play-As] Opponents' activated Artifacts are protected from deactivation. Opponents' inactive Artifacts are protected from activation. May be used twice.

Thanks.

I'm fairly sure the ruling is Instant Artifacts get discarded after their second use of the ability and ongoing last through the round.

However I would personally like to see that changed so that a "use" on an artifact means a round of being active all the time.

can someone point me to where those two erratas are listed, please?

Those are not errata, for the record.  Only those listed on the official errata page are erratas.  Otherwise, they are 'play-as' that try to translate wording to more modern phrasing, but if they change the way an ability works, they are incorrect at this time.

Quote from: Praeceps on July 15, 2015, 06:21:56 PM

can someone point me to where those two erratas are listed, please?

Those are not errata, for the record.  Only those listed on the official errata page are erratas.  Otherwise, they are 'play-as' that try to translate wording to more modern phrasing, but if they change the way an ability works, they are incorrect at this time.

Okay, I wasn't sure so I went with "errata". I'll update my main post to reflect this.