Author Topic: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel  (Read 2311 times)

Offline southpawami

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Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« on: January 24, 2010, 01:20:01 AM »
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So... read the directions on battle with immunity/repel.  Yet...

1. If my opponent lays a discard everyone from battle, and it happens to be a demon, and I play interrupt and set aside demon for 4 turns(bound - AW) does the discard actually take place?

2. If the same as above happens, and I respond with an interrupt and play next enhancement, and then play ignore all humans, or immune to all humans, or ignore any demon in play(depending on the opponent) does the discard or removal from the game take place?

3. If I play ignore all humans or immune to all humans on a little 2/2 angel, and the numbers don't come anywhere close to matching the opponent, does the opponent have the initiative to play any type of enhancement, including a negate, since I am in no way harming them?

4. If a negate is played to negate an enhancement, can you negate the negate, and then negate that negate, and so on... and so on.. and so on?

5. if an evil character is immune to new testament heroes, and I play discard all NT heroes(might of angels), is that character discarded since it's immune to my character?

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 01:43:23 AM »
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So... read the directions on battle with immunity/repel.  Yet...

1. If my opponent lays a discard everyone from battle, and it happens to be a demon, and I play interrupt and set aside demon for 4 turns(bound - AW) does the discard actually take place?


Nope, assuming there are no other characters that the enhancement could be played on. So if your opponent used only Red Dragon to block and played Deceit of Sapphira, then Bound would stop the discard from happening. If he or she banded Gomer to Red Dragon and played it, then Deceit would reactivate to discard all cards in battle after you set aside RD.

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2. If the same as above happens, and I respond with an interrupt and play next enhancement, and then play ignore all humans, or immune to all humans, or ignore any demon in play(depending on the opponent) does the discard or removal from the game take place?

Nope. If your hero is ignoring all of the Evil Characters in battle, they can't harm your hero, and your hero can't harm them. But the EC's can harm themselves, so the result of this situation would be the EC discarding themselves but all ignoring heroes staying alive. Same thing if your hero is immune. The only difference is that if your hero is immune, then you can still play something to harm the EC's, they just can't harm the immune hero.

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3. If I play ignore all humans or immune to all humans on a little 2/2 angel, and the numbers don't come anywhere close to matching the opponent, does the opponent have the initiative to play any type of enhancement, including a negate, since I am in no way harming them?

In this case, ignoring them would make you be winning the battle, and it would be their initiative to play a negate, or any other card (but they can't harm the hero without interrupting or negating the ignore card). If you are immune, this causes a stalemate, and you would need to play an enhancement to get rid of them or to make your numbers bigger. They can't negate the immune enhancement unless your numbers become higher so you are winning, or you play a special ability that removes them from battle.

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4. If a negate is played to negate an enhancement, can you negate the negate, and then negate that negate, and so on... and so on.. and so on?

Yes. Negates can negate each other. So If I play Sign of the Rainbow to negate your enhancement, then you play Misuse of Talents to negate Sign of the Rainbow, then I play Covenant of Noah to negate Misuse of Talents, then you play Disobedience to negate CoN, then the result is you having your original enhancement, with Misuse of Talents and Disobedience also on the table.

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5. if an evil character is immune to new testament heroes, and I play discard all NT heroes(might of angels), is that character discarded since it's immune to my character?

Might of Angels doesn't discard heroes...but assuming you mean EC's, then Might of Angels would discard the Evil Character (Emperor Claudius is who you're referring to I assume) unless the Angel who played it was NT. If the Angel is NT, nothing it plays can discard Claudius when Claudius is blocking. But Claudius is not immune to Might of Angels by itself, so an OT Angel can play it to discard him
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 01:52:25 AM by Professoralstad »
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Offline southpawami

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 01:50:27 AM »
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In this case, ignoring them would make you be winning the battle, and it would be their initiative to play a negate, or any other card (but they can't harm the hero without interrupting or negating the ignore card). If you are immune, this causes a stalemate, and you would need to play an enhancement to get rid of them or to make your numbers bigger. They can't negate the immune enhancement unless your numbers become higher so you are winning, or you play a special ability that removes them from battle.

I thought immune was like going through them... that's interesting.  So a hero immune to a certain brigade can't get hurt by them but doesn't get the redeemed soul either.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 01:55:08 AM »
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In this case, ignoring them would make you be winning the battle, and it would be their initiative to play a negate, or any other card (but they can't harm the hero without interrupting or negating the ignore card). If you are immune, this causes a stalemate, and you would need to play an enhancement to get rid of them or to make your numbers bigger. They can't negate the immune enhancement unless your numbers become higher so you are winning, or you play a special ability that removes them from battle.

I thought immune was like going through them... that's interesting.  So a hero immune to a certain brigade can't get hurt by them but doesn't get the redeemed soul either.

Actually, ignore is more like going through them. In an ignore situation, you are winning and they can't hurt you, but you never get to play enhancements either (while they can play any enhancement they want except ones that hurt you). Immune is more like you being protected by a brick wall that they can't get through. They can't hurt you, but you can hurt them, and you still need to defeat them by numbers or special ability to win the LS.
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Offline southpawami

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 09:35:52 AM »
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Actually, ignore is more like going through them. In an ignore situation, you are winning and they can't hurt you, but you never get to play enhancements either (while they can play any enhancement they want except ones that hurt you). Immune is more like you being protected by a brick wall that they can't get through. They can't hurt you, but you can hurt them, and you still need to defeat them by numbers or special ability to win the LS.

They can play enhancements while they are being ignored?  I thought they could only play and interrupt or negate while they were being ignored.  I thought they could play enhancements that did things to guys in your territory if they were being defeated by immunity.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 09:44:06 AM »
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They can play enhancements while they are being ignored?  I thought they could only play and interrupt or negate while they were being ignored.  I thought they could play enhancements that did things to guys in your territory if they were being defeated by immunity.

You are correct. In the situation where the hero is ignoring the blocker, the blocker can only play a negate. The ignore ability will officially end the battle otherwise. From the 10th Anniversary Rulebook:

Example – Winning by ignore/immunity

You are rescuing with Servant Angel, a silver brigade Hero with abilities of 5/6 and the special ability, “Holder may draw a card.” After you play Servant Angel into the Field of Battle, you immediately draw a card. Your opponent then blocks with Shechem, a pale green brigade Evil Character with abilities of 6/7. Since Servant Angel is losing, you have initiative and play The Sixth Seal, a silver brigade enhancement with abilities of 2/2 and the special ability, “Hero ignores pale green brigade.” Servant Angel will pass by Shechem as though Shechem is not there and will make a successful rescue. Your opponent must negate the “ignore” special ability or the rescue will succeed, and each character will be returned to his owner’s territory.
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Offline southpawami

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 09:50:38 AM »
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They can play enhancements while they are being ignored?  I thought they could only play and interrupt or negate while they were being ignored.  I thought they could play enhancements that did things to guys in your territory if they were being defeated by immunity.

You are correct. In the situation where the hero is ignoring the blocker, the blocker can only play a negate. The ignore ability will officially end the battle otherwise. From the 10th Anniversary Rulebook:

Example – Winning by ignore/immunity

You are rescuing with Servant Angel, a silver brigade Hero with abilities of 5/6 and the special ability, “Holder may draw a card.” After you play Servant Angel into the Field of Battle, you immediately draw a card. Your opponent then blocks with Shechem, a pale green brigade Evil Character with abilities of 6/7. Since Servant Angel is losing, you have initiative and play The Sixth Seal, a silver brigade enhancement with abilities of 2/2 and the special ability, “Hero ignores pale green brigade.” Servant Angel will pass by Shechem as though Shechem is not there and will make a successful rescue. Your opponent must negate the “ignore” special ability or the rescue will succeed, and each character will be returned to his owner’s territory.

So if someone plays ignore all humans, the opponent can't respond with interrupt the battle and discard all cards in battle?

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 10:50:37 AM »
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So if someone plays ignore all humans, the opponent can't respond with interrupt the battle and discard all cards in battle?

Unless they state they are CBN/CBI, you can always interrupt an immune/ignore ability, so long as you have the proper initative to do so.

Offline southpawami

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2010, 10:55:25 AM »
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But according to the reg he just quoted, the rescue attempt will succeed if the "ignore" ability is not negated.  So does it become a heroic martyr?

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2010, 02:52:04 PM »
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Interrupt and prevent are a "form" of negate. Interrupt stops something that happened before it; prevent stops something that happens after it; negate does both. An interrupt and a negate in this situation would accomplish the same goal - stop the battle from ending. A prevent would be too late, since the ignore card was already played.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2010, 03:41:41 PM »
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They can't negate the immune enhancement unless your numbers become higher so you are winning, or you play a special ability that removes them from battle.
They could since init passes in stale.

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Your opponent must negate the “ignore” special ability or the rescue will succeed, and each character will be returned to his owner’s territory.
Last I knew ignore gave you infinite initiative till it is negated or you concede the battle. Is my view in the REG or have I just been playing wrong?
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2010, 04:08:51 PM »
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Last I knew ignore gave you infinite initiative till it is negated or you concede the battle. Is my view in the REG or have I just been playing wrong?

Well, no actually. The Rulebook also says this:

Redemption® Rulebook > Situation Descriptions > Winning the Battle > Winning by Ignore/Immunity

Your Hero is winning by ignore if your Hero is ignoring the Evil Character(s) in battle. Your Hero is winning by immunity if the Hero is immune to the blocking Evil Character and the strength of your Hero greater than or equal to the blocking Evil Character’s toughness. Either way, your opponent has initiative and can play any evil enhancement of matching brigade. However, the special ability on the enhancement cannot be directed at a Hero that is immune to the Evil Character or is ignoring the Evil Character.

I always went by the example since that was the last thing I read. To me, the two are contradictory. I havve always viewed Immune as meaning "you can't hurt me, but I still have to get past you." Conversely, Ignore I have always taken as meaning "I'm going past you whether you like it or not, so try and stop me!" Ignore wins the battle, while Immune may not (you still have to beat the blocker's toughness).

However, my interpretation of how Immune is different than Ignore is irrelevant, since the Rulebook says "in either case." So apparently I have been the one playing it wrong all this time.  :-\
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 04:51:33 PM »
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*Pat pat* its okay. We've all been there.
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Offline southpawami

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 05:41:14 PM »
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Yes!!!  The nine billion angel immune cards ARE worth something.  I was getting worried.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 09:00:36 PM »
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So if your opponent used only Red Dragon to block and played Deceit of Sapphira, then Bound would stop the discard from happening.
Just so there's no confusion, this doesn't actually work 100% of the time. If Bound was played by Paul, a Shielded Silver Human, or a Hero who had Silver added via TiR, the Discard would still happen.
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Offline Kevin Shride

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 06:57:51 AM »
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In the situation where the hero is ignoring the blocker, the blocker can only play a negate. The ignore ability will officially end the battle otherwise.
Not quite.  The blocker can only win the battle by negating the ignore, but he is allowed to play anything else that targets something other than what is being ignored.  What you highlighted from the rulebook just illustrates what will happen during battle resolution.  Nothing says that you go straight to resolution after an ignore is played.

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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Questions about initiative with immunity/ignore/interrupt/repel
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 05:00:41 PM »
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I guess I should have deleted that post after I corrected myself later.  ;)
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