Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Some corrections to other answers:

Quote from: Redoubter on December 04, 2013, 09:02:45 PM

4. No.  First strike only means you don't get discarded in otherwise normal mutual destruction, but in this case, since they both have it, they would both be discarded if each strength is greater than the other's toughness.  Initiative will pass as normal for playing cards, and in resolution they would both be discarded if the numbers situation stays the same.

I don't think this is correct. In cases of mutual first strike, whichever character had first strike first takes precedence and would survive while the other character is discarded as normal.

It is correct, both characters can have first strike, there is no "first" first strike.  First strike only comes into play where there is mutual destruction and one side has first strike where the other doesn't; in that case, the first striker survives (or passes initiative, depending on the stage of battle).

1. If I put Moses (negate all characters and enhancements) in the field of Battle does the SA only affect the characters and enhancements in battle

or does it negate all "While in play" SA on Heroes and EC SA in players territories and territory class enhancements that remain in play?

 Like Death and Hades , Simon the Zealot , Aaron , Lifting the Curse, Large tree , set aside etc?

I believe he would negate all of those (since he doesn't specify "in battle"). Note, though, that for Large Tree it wouldn't undo the increases that the King has received (those are CBN since they are instant abilities that completed in a previous phase), just the cannot be ignored portion.

It does not negate some of those cards, if they were activated and completed in a previous phase.  For example, a triggered Simon the Zealot that activated in a previous battle and wasn't negated in that phase is CBN starting in the following phase, so Moses would not negate one in territory.

3. Moses does not negate enhancements out of battle. If it was played in the battle in would not even be placed.

His ability is not restricted to battle, and I don't remember an errata (though it is possible).  If there hasn't been a change posted for his ability (or FBTN in general), then he defaults to play.  As above, he cannot negate anything that completed in a previous phase (like searching for a site if done in a previous phase or the placing an enhancement), but it can negate anything not completed (like the rest of Lifting the Curse).

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On your new questions:

1. See above, it depends if it completed in a previous phase.

2. Ff he ever leaves play, he must be reactivated.  If he reenters battle, he reactivates (and can be negated then and not have the ability continue).  However, if he completed in a previous phase, the ability is CBN.  It remains active while he is in play, see above, Moses does not negate him in territory.

3. See above.  The placing is CBN if it completed in a previous phase.  The rest is negated until after the battle phase, then it is no longer negated.

4. They can be negated, but the place ability being completed in a previous phase is CBN.

5. By default, all search and exchange abilities shuffle the deck.

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It may be easier to make different threads with similar questions in them when you have questions.  It is a bit hard to follow this now-6-pager, and it has a lot of topics in it

I thought only instant abilities completed in previous phases were CBN , not ongoing abilities? For example, I thought it had been ruled that placed cards with ongoing abilities cannot be unplaced (because it's CBN) but CAN have their ongoing effect negated (like by FBTN characters).

It depends on the card type.  Ongoing abilities like on artifacts, sites, souls, placed enhancements, and fortresses are constantly reactivating due to the nature of the cards.  Characters only activate when entering battle, and have most of the examples of abilities that have this rule apply.  Characters with "While in play" like Simon the Zealot completed in a previous phase, and are CBN.  Abilities like that on cards that continually reactivate (like on artifacts) can be negated because they never 'completed' in a previous phase, due to their abilities reactivating.

So yes, instant abilities (like place) have this rule apply.  So too do cards that only activate once (or at specific times) and have "While in play".

Okay, I can see where you're coming from. I forgot that character "while in play" abilities don't constantly reactivate like other ongoing abilities so it makes sense that they would be CBN.

It's one of those oddball rules, to be sure