Author Topic: Questions about certain rules and cards (Read 16990 times)

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 02, 2013, 03:46:57 PM »

What would happen if a side battle is later negated?

Do you have to undo the things that happened in that side battle?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #51 on:** October 02, 2013, 05:31:13 PM »

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on October 02, 2013, 03:46:57 PM

What would happen if a side battle is later negated?

Do you have to undo the things that happened in that side battle?

Yes, unless those things were done because of cannot be interrupted or cannot be negated abilities. Also note that enhancements that were played in the side battle that were played and then discarded will remain discarded even if the side battle is negated.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 02, 2013, 06:06:56 PM »

Question 1:

Does a "Interrupt the battle" enhancement always momentarily suspend or undo an effect of the last enhancement (in this case the last evil enhancement played ) played in battle even if the hero using the interrupt ability just has regular initiative and not special initiative?

Question 2:

Could a hero be placed in the fortress card The Name of the Lord " If you have initiative you may interrupt the battle and place your hero on this fortress..

if the hero is losing by the numbers by regular initiative?

browarod · « **Reply #53 on:** October 02, 2013, 06:39:48 PM »

1: Yes it does. If your opponent plays Great Image (a non-battle winner) and initiative passes to you by numbers and you play an ItB, it would interrupt Great Image.

2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #54 on:** October 02, 2013, 08:54:43 PM »

Just to clarify the last question , if a interrupt the battle is played it only interrupts the last enhancement played and not the 2nd or 3rd last one played?

I am not completely sure about the EC Trembling demon sa?

SA says : If no good enhancement is played this battle protect all LS from rescue. Opponent may discard a good enhancement to negate this.

1. So what if a good enhancement is played during the battle when the this character is in battle? Can the Lost souls be rescued at this point?

2. Is it possible for an artifact SA to be active even though it is shuffled back into draw pile?

Like using Angelic advice enhancement? SA: Shuffle all artifact piles in play back into each players draw pile. Active artifacts are shuffled but not negated.

3. In the current rules of redemption does it say anything that if you run out of cards in your deck you lose the game?

Redoubter · « **Reply #55 on:** October 02, 2013, 09:34:13 PM »

Quote from: browarod on October 02, 2013, 06:39:48 PM

2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.

Clarification: To be able to use The Name of the Lord during Special Initiative, it must be able to interrupt the ability causing SI. That is, it must be in battle, because The Name of the Lord only has interrupt the battle. If the ability comes from outside the battle (i.e. Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, Herod's Dungeon, etc.), TNotL cannot be used.

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on October 02, 2013, 08:54:43 PM

Just to clarify the last question , if a interrupt the battle is played it only interrupts the last enhancement played and not the 2nd or 3rd last one played?

From the REG:

Quote from: The REG 2.0

The phrase “interrupt the battle” includes interrupting the following:
o all active ongoing abilities
o abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
o the last card played in current battle if it was played by your opponent.
Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle.

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on October 02, 2013, 08:54:43 PM

1. So what if a good enhancement is played during the battle when the this character is in battle? Can the Lost souls be rescued at this point?

2. Is it possible for an artifact SA to be active even though it is shuffled back into draw pile?

3. In the current rules of redemption does it say anything that if you run out of cards in your deck you lose the game?

1. Yes, they can, because the protection is not in effect. It only goes into effect if it was not negated and no good enhancement was played.

2. Yes. Any ability that is not negated and is not contingent on the card being in its location (some artifacts saying "While in play" or something along those lines, those would 'turn off' if leaving play due to the condition being false), then the ability persists through the end of the current phase. You have to negate the ability for it to 'turn off' in those cases, as just removing the card doesn't do it on its own.

3. Nothing happens, you just don't have a deck, there is no current penalty or effect.

browarod · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2013, 09:50:44 AM »

Quote from: Redoubter on October 02, 2013, 09:34:13 PM

Quote from: browarod on October 02, 2013, 06:39:48 PM
2: Yes. Anytime you have initiative (of any kind, including both normal and special) you can use NotL's special ability.

Clarification: To be able to use The Name of the Lord during Special Initiative, it must be able to interrupt the ability causing SI. That is, it must be in battle, because The Name of the Lord only has interrupt the battle. If the ability comes from outside the battle (i.e. Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, Herod's Dungeon, etc.), TNotL cannot be used.

If we're being nit picky then you have to specify Magic Charms outside of battle. MC on a magician in battle CAN be interrupted by ItB (per your quote above "abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle").

Praeceps · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2013, 01:35:01 PM »

"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"

This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?

browarod · « **Reply #58 on:** October 03, 2013, 04:31:04 PM »

Quote from: Praeceps on October 03, 2013, 01:35:01 PM

"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"

This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?

Because of the later clause: "Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle."

Redoubter · « **Reply #59 on:** October 03, 2013, 05:46:01 PM »

Quote from: browarod on October 03, 2013, 09:50:44 AM

If we're being nit picky then you have to specify Magic Charms outside of battle. MC on a magician in battle CAN be interrupted by ItB (per your quote above "abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle").

Ha, you caught me. I made the distinction in the other thread this came up, forgot to include it here

Quote from: browarod on October 03, 2013, 04:31:04 PM

Quote from: Praeceps on October 03, 2013, 01:35:01 PM
"abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle"

This doesn't say the ability has to originate in battle, why doesn't it stop MC outside battle or UW?
Because of the later clause: "Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they were activated on cards in the current battle."

Exactly, you can only use an ability during Special Initiative that interrupts or negates the source of the removal. It's the same thing with a CBN or CBI ability; just because it would cause SI doesn't mean you actually get to do anything. You don't have anything that can undo it, so it resolves. In this case, TNotL can't interrupt anything outside of battle, so you can't use it during SI.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 07, 2013, 10:40:46 AM »

Even though the 4th edition rulebook says

Losing by Removal (because of a
Special Ability)

A Hero is losing by removal if the last Hero in battle
is being discarded, withdrawn, underdecked, or
otherwise removed from battle by an opposing
special ability. You have initiative, but you may only
play an enhancement that has a “negate” special
ability.

Could you still play an enhancement during special initiative that interrupts the battle even though 4th edition does not specify?

Just wanted to make sure.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #61 on:** October 07, 2013, 11:40:00 AM »

Is that really what the new rulebook says? Eek! It should definitely say "negate" or "interrupt."

browarod · « **Reply #62 on:** October 07, 2013, 11:40:27 AM »

Yes, you may play an interrupt as long as it can interrupt the special ability causing your removal. For example, if they play an enhancement that captures you, an "interrupt the battle" or "interrupt an evil card" could be played. If, however, they discard Unholy Writ to capture you, you cannot play an "interrupt the battle" card because Unholy Writ is not in battle.

*instaposted*

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #63 on:** October 07, 2013, 11:42:14 AM »

Quote from: browarod on October 07, 2013, 11:40:27 AM

Yes, you may play an interrupt as long as it can interrupt the special ability causing your removal.

That should also be specified in the rulebook. Is none of this in there? Or is it just somewhere else (which is still a problem)?

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 07, 2013, 12:13:00 PM »

Yes YMT it is true it does not say anything about " or interrupt" in it. (Hope it does not change anything about interrupt)

Please be sure to check it out at the cactus game design website the Pdf of the 4th edition rule book.

It also in the back of the book in the definitions it does not define Interrupt , fortresses , artifacts or sites? (even though the newer tin has an artifact , fortress and site in it)

If you have looked at it , please post your thoughts on it.

What does the forums think?

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 07, 2013, 12:22:44 PM »

or if the 4th edition rule book does not specify interrupt in it , maybe the latest rules on the forums or 10th Anniversary rule book should only apply to the special initiative on interrupt.

or maybe the definitions were only specified for that deck only , as the deck has some "Negate" cards in it.

browarod · « **Reply #66 on:** October 07, 2013, 02:44:11 PM »

The Elders have mentioned that the 4th Edition Rulebook will (eventually) have a companion extended rulebook so perhaps the clarifications will be in there (as you said, the 4th Edition may be mostly referring to the decks it comes with).

No telling when that will be released, though.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 07, 2013, 07:22:15 PM »

Speaking of interrupt

Since interrupt , interrupts all ongoing abilities does this mean example:

Purple hero 3/3 is blocked by Prince of this World 10/12 SA: Immune to lone heroes

Purple hero plays Fall like lightning SA: interrupt the battle and discard a demon in play..

Because Prince of this world's immune ability has been interrupted does this mean the discard can target Prince?

2nd example:

Purple hero 3/3 is blocked by Abner 9/8 (Kings) SA: Character has First Strike. Can not be negated...

Purple hero plays Reach of desperation enhancement (interrupt the battle enhancement)

Since Abner's First Strike can not be negated does this mean when the Reach enhancement is played its SA does not activate but rather the numbers only count?

browarod · « **Reply #68 on:** October 07, 2013, 07:38:02 PM »

1. Yes, Fall Like Lightning would be able to discard Prince of This World in that scenario. Interrupt the battle interrupts PoTW's ongoing immunity.

2. Reach of Desperation still activates and interrupts the battle, it just can't interrupt Abner's First Strike. It would interrupt any other non-CBN/CBI ongoing abilities on cards in battle and you'd get to draw/play if you wanted to.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #69 on:** October 12, 2013, 10:47:25 PM »

I got several more questions to ask all in one posting.

1. Is this correct? When a hero is protected from evil cards (like protection of Angels(priests) , this means it is only protected from evil SA and not the the strength or toughness of the EC in battle.

2. What would happen if a player's hero is being removed in battle by Special initiative , and the player plays Aotl and discards the opponent's blocker?

Does the SA causing special in still activate? as a dominant do not negate SA on other cards? or is it the "Targets must be in play rule?"

3.If an EC is losing because of Special initiative , could they use Unholy writ to capture hero instead?

4. Can all enhancement cards with the word "Heal " (expect the enhancement card "Miracle of healing SA: Heal any hero who has been poisoned or diseased" ) heal a character that was recently discarded in the same turn?

5.Could you play the heal enhancement on a teal character in your territory " Purifying the Unclean" SA "Heal a hero in play.. Discard all evil cards placed on that hero. and heal a character from discard pile?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #70 on:** October 12, 2013, 11:03:57 PM »

Quote from: redemption collector 777 on October 12, 2013, 10:47:25 PM

I got several more questions to ask all in one posting.

1. Is this correct? When a hero is protected from evil cards (like protection of Angels(priests) , this means it is only protected from evil SA and not the the strength or toughness of the EC in battle. No. Protection from evil cards protects from strength on evil cards as well.

2. What would happen if a player's hero is being removed in battle by Special initiative , and the player plays Aotl and discards the opponent's blocker? Unless the special ability that caused the special initiative is interrupted, the Hero(es) would still be affected by the special ability. You can discard the blocker with AotL, but not before the special ability takes effect.

Does the SA causing special in still activate? as a dominant do not negate SA on other cards? or is it the "Targets must be in play rule?" As said before, you can not play AotL during special initiative. Dominants do not negate other cards unless they have a negate/interrupt ability.

3.If an EC is losing because of Special initiative , could they use Unholy writ to capture hero instead? Similar to the AotL situation, you can use Writ on the attacking Hero, but the special ability is still carried out, as Unholy Writ does not interrupt it. This is a common play with Writ however, as if you capture the only Hero in battle after your EC is defeated, the block is successful.

4. Can all enhancement cards with the word "Heal " (expect the enhancement card "Miracle of healing SA: Heal any hero who has been poisoned or diseased" ) heal a character that was recently discarded in the same turn? Yes. Healing enahncements (i.e. any enhancement with "Heal in the SA") can be played at any time in a turn (but must follow rules of initiative in battle) as long as it can target a Hero that is "healable" (i.e. was discarded in the same turn, or is currently poisoned and diseased). Miracle of Healing can be played at any time as other Healing cards (as long as there is a poisoned/diseased Hero in your territory), but you are correct that it cannot Heal a discarded Hero.

5.Could you play the heal enhancement on a teal character in your territory " Purifying the Unclean" SA "Heal a hero in play.. Discard all evil cards placed on that hero. and heal a character from discard pile? Yes. Healing cards that say "in play" can also heal Heroes that have been discarded from play.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 13, 2013, 12:29:44 AM »

1. Could a EC negate or interrupt a withdraw from battle (ex like Flight of spies enhancement 0/7 ) ability used by a hero , if it causes the EC to have regular initiative by the numbers?

2. This question is about ignore.

How would initiative apply if these situations happened?

Examples:
Hero Samson (gold) is blocked by Lot's wife (black brigade) which is banded to Er ( Pale Green) Samson plays enhancement Peace and ignores black.

or the same thing above but Samson is banded to Mark (blue brigade) and then ignores black.

3. If a hero has first strike and then plays an enhancement that causes mutual destruction by the numbers does the hero gain the first initiative to move it away from destruction situation or does initiative go to the EC (for the whoever did not play the last card rule)

4. Are these correct?
If a hero ignores a EC , then the EC cannot be immune or ignore the hero?
If a hero is immune to the EC the the EC cannot ignore the hero?

5. Could hero The Strong Angel SA: Negate all SA on characters and Enhancements , gain a set aside ability of Gathering of Angels SA set aside may band to any hero... even though the character negates all?

6. Question about Tartaros fortress.

It says" All demons that holder captures or discards are placed in Tartaros.

1. Does this mean if my demon loses in battle does it get placed in my Tartaros site?

2. if I discard one of my opponents demon does it get placed in my Tartaros site as well?

3. If so if I release one of my opponents demon it goes back to their territory etc?

Praeceps · « **Reply #72 on:** October 13, 2013, 04:21:50 PM »

I can answer a few of these:

2. In your first example, Sampson is ignoring Lot's Wife, but Er is fair game and can interupt/negate peace. If Sampson bands to Mark and plays Peace, only Sampson is ignoring Black.

3. MDbN would be resolved normally, but if only one side has first strike, those with it will survive, if both sides have it, I believe everyone dies normally.

4b. Not sure about the first part, but if one side is immune first, the second can play an ignore, but it results in a stalemate as the opposing side was immune to the loss causing portion of the ignore ability.

5. Abilities gained from set aside are CBN. Which is why gathering Strong Angel and then banding him to Michael works so very well...

6a. I don't think so, I believe you have to play an ability that causes your demon to be discarded.
6b. Yes
6c. No, it says release to holder's territory.

browarod · « **Reply #73 on:** October 13, 2013, 04:30:29 PM »

Quote from: Praeceps on October 13, 2013, 04:21:50 PM

if both sides have it, I believe everyone dies normally.

I agree with everything you posted except this part. If both sides have first strike, whichever was active first takes precedence, I believe. Not 100% sure, though.

redemption collector 777 · « **Reply #74 on:** October 14, 2013, 12:38:16 PM »

1. About the Anti-withdraw LS (Angel Wars)

Says: If a hero withdraws from a RA against holder , place this card beneath owner's draw pile.

Could the LS card SA be activated if a hero's RA ended in a stalemate as well? ( Like hero and EC could not defeat each other or hero got ignored by the EC that battle etc)

2. Could a EC negate or interrupt a withdraw from battle (ex like Flight of spies enhancement 0/7 ) ability used by a hero , if it causes the EC to have regular initiative by the numbers?

3. Can any of the following cards stop Dominant card Harvest time ( search for LS in opponent's deck)
-Jerusalem Tower ( no card can be removed from Holder's draw pile)
-Hezekiah's signet ring ( no opponent can search any draw or discard pile)

4. If interrupt , interrupts all ongoing SA , How can playing an interrupt enhancement successfully suspend any of the following in a battle situation? or does it really?

Copy , Hold , Increase or decrease abilities , Protect, Restrict , Site Access , Use Other enhancements

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Author Topic: Questions about certain rules and cards (Read 16990 times)

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