Author Topic: Questions about certain rules and cards #2  (Read 12088 times)

Offline redemption collector 777

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Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« on: December 05, 2013, 09:09:01 PM »
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1. In this example would the hero (Miriam) be considered "the last card played' and the EC gains the initiative?

 If Aaron 6/4 (Green) begins a RA and bands Miriam 4/4 with total of 10/8

  then is blocked by (Gray) Laban 9/9.



2. Would the hero get to play the first enhancement in this example?

  Levi (blue) with weapon Helmet of brass SA: Hero may play the first enhancement after the blocker is presented. 

 then is blocked by The jeering youths SA: If blocking an O.T human hero  ,may play an O.T brown enhancement. (and wants to play enhancement)


3. Would Levi or EC play the first enhancement?

 Levi has Helmet of brass and Lacking Sleep placed on him SA: While hero is lacking sleep player must allow the opponent to play the first enhancement in battle and is blocked by any EC.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:33:51 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 09:25:37 PM »
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1) The heroes would play first, because the band happens before the evil character enters battle.

2) The evil character gets to play first. Essentially Helmet of Brass is a delayed trigger that triggers after the block, but for anything to happen after the block happens the block needs to finish which includes the evil character's ability.

3) I actually don't know in this case. My first instinct is that the evil character would play first, but I don't really have a good reason for why, so don't trust me on it.
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Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 09:45:59 PM »
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1. What should the player do if a search or exchange ability is negated? Should they put the exchanged or searched card on top of draw pile or shuffle it back in?

2. Could a single hero set themselves a side in a battle when they have normal initiative with an enhancement like Prayer and fasting SA: set Hero a side . hero gains 1/1.. and leaves battle?

3. Would Joseph in prison enhancement still remove all cards in battle from the game or does the SA stay interrupted in this example?

  EC in battle plays Joseph in prison , and then hero interrupts it with Reach and plays no enhancement and the SA is done on reach.

Offline yirgogo

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 09:50:59 PM »
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1. The card would get shuffled in if it was searched for/exchanged. If exchanged than the original card that was exchanged would go back to where it was before the exchange. If a card was searched for, put in battle, but then the search card was negated, all the effects of the search card would be negated, so the card would go back into deck, but its special ability wouldn't be un-active or reversed by just putting it back in draw pile.

Ex. Miriam 4/4, blocked by Egyptian Warden.
Miriam plays search: search your deck for any card. She searches for Behold the Lamb: interrupt the battle and reveal a lamb icon card in your hand to discard up to three evil enhancements and/or curses, Cannot be negated.
Then Egyptian Warden plays Mask of Fear: all special abilities on character cards and enhancement cards except this one are interrupted and prevented, battle is determined by the numbers.

Search is negated, so Behold the Lamb is shuffled back into draw pile, but its special ability stays active in battle, the negating of search doesn't negate the cards of searched cards, even if they are sent back to their original position, the playing of the cards is not reversed.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 09:53:32 PM »
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1) If a card that searches a deck (whether it exchanges or not) gets negated, you shuffle the searched card back into the deck.

2) Yes, however it has to follow the normal rules of initiative.

3) Yes, interrupting on its own won't stop a card from resolving, so after Reach is finished and no enhancement is played (or one that doesn't stop Joseph in Prison from 'reactivating') Joseph in Prison will remove everything from the game.
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Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 12:38:35 AM »
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1. Are Curses treated like artifacts? If so could any enhancement card that says "negate and/or discard an active artifact " target a curse?

   Like casting lots (black and Gray) , lying unto god , captured ark , Angelic advice etc?




Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 01:24:28 AM »
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Curses are artifacts when they are in the artifact pile or some other place as an artifact, but not when in battle as an enhancement. So you can discard your opponent's Unknown Nation with Lying Unto God in the artifact pile, but not if they have played it in battle as an enhancement.

I am also fairly sure that they are artifacts at face value, so if you are searching for an artifact you can search for Captured Ark, although I'm not 100% sure about this one.
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browarod

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 10:34:19 AM »
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To answer your original #3 from the first post, in cases where conflicting abilities are active, the one that was active first would take precedence. In this case, since Lacking Sleep targeted the Hero before he entered battle, it would take precedence over Helmet of Brass and the EC would get to play first.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 04:51:48 PM »
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Agree that curses and covenants are both enhancements and artifacts until played, just like everything that is dual-something.  Also agree with browarod's assessment of the conflicting abilities, based on the Wandering Spirit - Tartaros ruling.  It is a funky situation, but it should play out like that, yes.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 01:44:11 AM »
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1. If you can only heal a character on the same turn it was discarded , then how can the card Torment be used?

SA: Heal any Evil Character that is being discarded , except by a dominant.

If my blocking EC is discarded from battle , could I play it on an EC in my territory to heal my blocking EC even though it is not my turn? 

One example: Would this work?
  While in battle I play enhancement card Failed objective SA: discard all EC in battle , All LS are protected from being rescued by heroes this turn and then play Torment to return the EC to territory?

2.  Is it possible for a hero to go for a BC and has no site access to any LS , then suddenly the hero has site access because of a SA on an enhancement (like crushing blow Purple) and then it turns into a RA? 

3. Is deck , discard pile , hand , set aside area and LoR still considered in the field of play? (or is it out of play?)         
Could Dominants like CM  (discard any hero in play) target any hero in a set a side area?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 12:21:20 PM »
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1.  You are correct that you can play it even on your opponent's turn, and that your example is valid.  That is how all healing works, and on both alignments.  For example, I can use Brass Serpent on your turn if you discard my hero, and you can use Torment on my turn if I discard your EC.  Either is valid.

Quote from: REG 2.0
Playing Healing Enhancements
Healing enhancements can be played in battle (during the battle phase) or outside of battle. When played during the battle phase they must be played according to the rules that govern when other enhancements can be played. A player has the option to play a healing enhancement during the preparation phase and the discard phase. A healing enhancement played in this way must be played on a character of matching brigade in one of two ways: (1) on a character in the holder's territory or (2) on a character in the holder's discard pile (if the character was discarded in the same turn). Both result in that character being healed. Healing cards played on a character in a discard pile must target the same character.

2. Yes.  If you had Ethiopian Treasurer play Crushing Blow from your example, the BC becomes a RA.  Similarly, if your opponent blocks your BC and your hero(es) gains access during the battle, it also becomes a RA.  The state of BC/RA can be fluid.

3. Hand, deck, discard pile, set-aside, and LoR are not in play.  The only things in play are Field of Battle, territory, and Land of Bondage.  CM cannot target a hero in set-aside, since it defaults to play (those three locations above).

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 01:22:45 PM »
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1.  You are correct that you can play it even on your opponent's turn, and that your example is valid.  That is how all healing works, and on both alignments.  For example, I can use Brass Serpent on your turn if you discard my hero, and you can use Torment on my turn if I discard your EC.  Either is valid.

Quote from: REG 2.0
Playing Healing Enhancements
Healing enhancements can be played in battle (during the battle phase) or outside of battle. When played during the battle phase they must be played according to the rules that govern when other enhancements can be played. A player has the option to play a healing enhancement during the preparation phase and the discard phase. A healing enhancement played in this way must be played on a character of matching brigade in one of two ways: (1) on a character in the holder's territory or (2) on a character in the holder's discard pile (if the character was discarded in the same turn). Both result in that character being healed. Healing cards played on a character in a discard pile must target the same character.



(New question)1. Does this mean that you may play a healing enhancement only on your opponents discard phase , preparation phase and battle phase or any time on opponents turn?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 02:02:17 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 01:59:43 PM »
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You may only play healing cards:
1. In battle, when you could normally play the card by normal rules/initiative.
2. In any prep or discard phase during which you have a valid target.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 05:10:19 PM »
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1. If an artifact like HoH : this card cannot be negated is discarded by DON (Dominant) during the battle phase , does the effect of it only last until the battle phase is over?

2.  If covenant I am Patience part of SA: you may convert one human EC to a Green hero ( has already converted 3 human EC to Heroes , are still in play) and is discarded and negated by DON do the 3 characters go back to EC?

3. If a brown EC is blocking and plays Image of Jealousy (texp) during the battle phase and places it on an opponents fortress does the EC still gain the 1/3 on it?

3.1 Even though it is not in battle when it is placed , can the rescuing hero still interrupt or negate it? with a interrupt the battle or negate last card?

4.  If a player plays Casting lots during the discard phase (gray territory class) SA: negate artifacts , does the negate only last until the end of the player's discard phase?

5.  Is is possible for a good banding enhancement to be ignored by HHI?
That is the good banding enhancement can not enter the field of battle? unless it has CBP or CBN or you can still play it but the SA on it takes no effect?

6.  If a Hero goes for a BC (with rescuer's choice rule) and then gets site access is the battle still a BC because the rescuing player did not specify which LS they are going for?

7. Does the effect of Auto ( protect Gideon from opponents CBN)  lasts until the end of the Battle phase even though auto was exchanged in the discard pile for Gideon?

browarod

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2013, 05:35:37 PM »
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1. Correct. If a CBN card with an ongoing ability is discarded, the ongoing ability lasts until the end of the current phase.

2. No. Instant abilities completed in prior phases/turns are CBN. If you negate/discard it later it doesn't undo the conversions that were already completed.

3. I've always assumed that the numbers do not count because the enhancement is no longer in battle but I'm not 100% sure on that.

3.1 Yes there are ways (such as the 2 you described) to negate a card that places itself outside of battle.

4. Yes. Negate is an ongoing ability so unless it's on a card that stays in play the negate only lasts until the end of the phase in which it is played.

5. Enhancements can be ignored, technically, but it doesn't specifically affect the enhancement. You can still play an ignored enhancement and (assuming it's CBN or CBP, in this case) it activates as normal. Ignoring an enhancement does not specifically accomplish anything.

6. If you are playing with the Rescuer's Choice rule then anytime a Hero initiates a battle the player must select a Lost Soul to attempt to rescue (even if they don't have access). If they gain access to that Soul during the battle challenge it becomes a rescue attempt.

7. Yes. As said before, ongoing abilities last until the end of the phase in which they are played unless they are negated. Since AuTO is CBN the protection cannot be negated and persists until the end of the battle phase.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2013, 08:41:56 PM »
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Referring to Question 5 so if I play a good banding enhancement in battle with no CBN or CBP status , the SA on it will take no effect and only the numbers on it will count while HHI is active?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2013, 08:55:38 PM »
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Referring to Question 5 so if I play a good banding enhancement in battle with no CBN or CBP status , the SA on it will take no effect and only the numbers on it will count while HHI is active?

HHI's ability, while it sounds odd, basically means that any hero with a band ability is ignored (cannot enter battle), and any abilities on good non-character cards that allow heroes to band are prevented (for a more in-depth explanation, see this post).

Agree 100% with browarod's post for all other questions as well.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2013, 05:39:30 PM »
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1. If Isaiah was in battle and had Isaiah's Call (enhancement) on him SA: While in battle Isaiah has site Access and negates LS ,Sites and EC.
 
Does Isaiah still negate Archelaus SA CBP by a hero?

even though the enhancement is causing the negate?


1.1 If Isaiah (with Isaiah's call with on him) and Seraph with a live coal were in battle and then Isaiah was discarded , does the negate of the Isaiah's call still lasts even though the enhancement says "While in Battle" and Isaiah SA says Good Isaiah cards CBN?


2. If a Side battle is negated does the effects of the enhancement cards played in that side are also negated?

3.If Grapes of wrath was played during a RA , does the term "begin a new battle" mean begin a new RA?   

4.If Aaron (disciples) bands to Moses and then blocked by  Naaman SA: O.T enhancement CBN and plays Pestilence (O.T enhancement) to discard Moses , does the Negate all part of Moses still lasts until the end of the battle phase?

  5.If a card does not say " in play" Like "discard a hero" does this mean you could target a hero in a set aside area (which is considered out of play)

6.  Lets say there was the Tabernacle in play with an artifact in it.

      Would that artifact be safe if the fortress was negated and then discard by ASA?

  7. Is there anything in the REG or forums that states that contents follow their hosts or something like that?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 05:59:36 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2013, 06:57:54 PM »
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1. The rule would be that Call does not prevent Archelaus.  The reason is twofold.  First, enhancements played by a character are "of that character" for the purposes of these abilities.  Any enhancements played by heroes that would prevent Archelaus's ability prior to him being active would count as that hero trying to prevent him, so he would still work.  Second, Isaiah's Call says that Isaiah negates all those abilities, and so it also cannot affect Archelaus before he activates.

1.1  No.  Abilities last until the end of the current phase unless the timeframe specifies something else.  "While in play" or "While in battle" both have a specific end condition, and the ability cannot persist afterwards.  It does not stop the negation of cards that already took place, but it does stop the prevention going forward.

2.  Yes.  Only CBI or CBN abilities would not be undone.

3.  Yes, though it just means that you can start a new battle if the conditions are met.  The next battle could start as a RA or BC, without regard to the state of the previous battle.

4.  Yes.  As mentioned before, all abilities last through the end of the current phase unless a different timeframe or condition is specified.  Since Moses has no conditions, and was not negated, the FBTN persists until end of battle.

5.  No.  Default for almost all abilities is "in play" and discard is one of those.  For reference, you can see the default targeting of an ability in the REG.

6.  No.  Placed cards go with the cards on which they are placed.  Even in the case where the contents are protected, they still follow their 'holder' wherever they go.

7.  Yes.

Quote from: REG 2.0
Movement of Cards “Placed On” Other Cards
If a card is placed on another card and the underlying card is relocated, the placed card is generally relocated to the same location that the underlying card is relocated and remains there. Exceptions to this rule are:
  • Lost Souls that are placed in sites are always returned to the general Land of Bondage and do not follow the underlying sites when the sites are relocated.
  • Any card placed on a Lost Soul is discarded if the Lost Soul is relocated outside its original Land of Bondage.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 10:20:28 PM »
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1. For determining X ( X = number of each opponent's good brigades in play) for Zeresh advises Haman   Would opponent's Good fortresses and multi - single coloured brigade heroes and good enhancements in a territory count for X?   

    So for example if opponent has 1 gold hero , 1 green hero and 2 good fortresses does X = 4? 

2.if Eli the priest was put into battle (blue brigade) SA: Search draw pile for an O.T artifact , can you search your draw pile for an O.T Curse?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 10:25:38 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline Praeceps

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 10:32:37 PM »
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1. No. Fortresses and Doms are colorless, the rainbow background just differentiates good from evil. But Aaron (green and Teal), Simon the Zealot (Purple and red), and Seeker of the Lost (red, blue and yellow) would be 6. Or you could just get lucky and catch him with Paul for 8.

2. When Eli enters battle, yes. Curses are targetable as artifacts while in hand, draw, artifact, and discard pile.
Just one more thing...

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 11:12:59 PM »
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Quote

2. No. Instant abilities completed in prior phases/turns are CBN. If you negate/discard it later it doesn't undo the conversions that were already completed.


New question 1. So if I am patience converts a human EC to a Hero during the discard phase , does the effect on the instant ability become CBN prior to it completing in the discard phase? or by next players discard phase?


2. In a two player game if player A has 3 redeemed LS and then plays Sog and NJ , then player B plays Falling Away does the game still continue? or does the game end prior to receiving the 5th LS?

3. Does good enhancements in a territory as well as heroes (Like lifting the Curse) count as a good brigade for enhancements like Zeresh advises Haman (X = number of each opponent's good brigades in play)

« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 11:20:18 PM by redemption collector 777 »

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2013, 12:20:55 AM »
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1. Once a phase ends, anything that completed in a prior phase (any prior phase) is CBN from that point forward.  In your example, once the next person started their turn, that conversion is no longer able to be negated.  It has completed in a prior phase.

2. You cannot play any cards, including dominants, during the resolution of another ability, and a player wins when they reach 5 souls by game rule.  If you play SOG+NJ while at 3 in a T1 game, you cannot not have FA stop you anymore, you just win.

3. Ah, tricky question.  It really depends on the wording of the card.  Anything that says "that opponent has" or "on opponent's cards" refers to ownership and control.  So, your example works, but a card like Sowing the Seed would not count, because your opponent would not 'own' it.

When cards talk about "your" cards or "opponent's" cards or "their" cards, they only trigger for cards with both ownership and control by the same player.  Cards that refer only to "in territory" or "control" only refer to control, and don't require ownership.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2013, 12:33:09 PM »
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1. Would it be true that if a single hero in battle is blocked by Emperor Nero (immune to lone heroes) and hero plays sword against sword to cause a side battle hero can not target Emperor Nero for the side battle because of immunity? 

2.If a fortress like Goshen was negated by image of Jealousy and it had 3 heroes in it , would the heroes have to return to owner's hand?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Questions about certain rules and cards #2
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »
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1.  Yes.

2.  Only if they were placed that phase.  Place/Hold abilities that completed in a prior phase are CBN after the phase in which they completed, but if you were to negate a fortress in the phase during which a special ability on the fortress allowed cards to be placed/held, they would return to their previous location.

 


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