Author Topic: Question added..... 4/10 (Read 6300 times)

Rawrlolsauce! · « **on:** April 09, 2010, 11:51:10 PM »

New question: I attack with my epic blue hero. The only lost soul is in my opponent's Hormah. They block with some newb. Their newb dies by the numbers. Does Hormah get shuffled before I get my soul?

I thought no, beings after you die by the numbers nothing can happen before you give your opponent a soul (be it Hormah or a dominant). We ended up ruling it that it was placed on the bottom because it was triggered? Something like that.

REG isn't opening for me for some reason.... can't post abilities

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2010, 11:53:37 PM »

also, can you add it to battle at any time?

also, if jc rescues with Habakuk, uses HT and plays a Search, can I DoN and negate the searching?

crustpope · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2010, 12:16:10 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 09, 2010, 11:51:10 PM

Another question: Is there a deciding factor for T2 Multi after total souls rescued? We had three people each with 3 points and 13 total souls rescued.

yeah...play another round!

No seriously, you go to who beat who in the games played. If one player was not beaten by the other players, that person is first, then it proceeds on from there. If they all beat each other (over three rounds) then ...play ... another ... round...

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2010, 12:17:29 AM »

Player A beat player B and C
Player B did not beat player A or C
Player C beat player A.

Playing another round is not an option >:c. Although I really don't think head to head is used in multi.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2010, 01:36:49 AM »

Quote

I attack with Jacob banded to some angel and add promise land to battle. Jacob is discarded. Does Promised Land get a counter after battle? Ring Wraith and I said no, our judge and former judge said yes.

I believe yes. Jacob only can use it without limit. Technically, (I believe), if you don't add a counter, the angel never had access, only Jacob. It seems correctly to me that a counter would be added if the angel needed access.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2010, 01:39:36 AM »

My take on it:

Jacob enters battle. It targets Jacob to give him access. All cards in battle have access beings it is a multi color site. Jacob has access due to the special ability also. Jacob is dead. All cards still have access beings it is a multi color site, but Jacob was the only one using the special ability. Therefore, no counter is added.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2010, 08:27:59 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 01:39:36 AM

Jacob enters battle. It targets Jacob to give him access. All cards in battle have access beings it is a multi color site. Jacob has access due to the special ability also. Jacob is dead. All cards still have access beings it is a multi color site, but Jacob was the only one using the special ability. Therefore, no counter is added.

This has been addressed in a relatively recent thread which I cannot find. According to this passage which Gabe presented, this is essentially how it works:

Quote from: REG > Ongoing Abilities > Access to Sites > How to Use

Special abilities on sites are not affected by character or enhancement cards. New Jerusalem (Site Card), Dragon Raid, and Promised Land are mainly used offensively as “access sites” and therefore their special abilities are written to take effect when they enter battle and at no other time. All the single color sites are mainly used defensively as “lost soul sites”. The special abilities on single color sites like Nero’s Realm and Leper Colony are written to take effect when they are holding a lost soul. Therefore, if you are using an “access site” defensively or a “lost soul site” offensively the special abilities don’t activate.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2010, 12:07:25 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 09, 2010, 11:53:37 PM

also, can you add it to battle at any time?

also, if jc rescues with Habakuk, uses HT and plays a Search, can I DoN and negate the searching?

Yes, you can add it to battle any time (as long as it is in the territory). If you add it when Jacob is in there, it gets no counter, but if you add it when he's not, it does.

You have to DoN HT before they attack. Because as soon as the Green Prophet enters battle, HT triggers and it's ability must complete, and the ability to play an enhancement cannot be interrupted. So even if Search was negatable, DoN wouldn't negate the search in this case.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2010, 06:41:42 PM »

Wow. We played the HT wrong, luckily he won that round anyway.

New question: I attack with my epic blue hero. The only lost soul is in my opponent's Hormah. They block with some newb. Their newb dies by the numbers. Does Hormah get shuffled before I get my soul?

I thought no, beings after you die by the numbers nothing can happen before you give your opponent a soul (be it Hormah or a dominant). We ended up ruling it that it was placed on the bottom because it was triggered? Something like that.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2010, 07:17:59 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 06:41:42 PM

Wow. We played the HT wrong, luckily he won that round anyway.

New question: I attack with my epic blue hero. The only lost soul is in my opponent's Hormah. They block with some newb. Their newb dies by the numbers. Does Hormah get shuffled before I get my soul?

I thought no, beings after you die by the numbers nothing can happen before you give your opponent a soul (be it Hormah or a dominant). We ended up ruling it that it was placed on the bottom because it was triggered? Something like that.

had we played it right, he might have rescued the lost soul right then and there, giving me outright second.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2010, 07:29:47 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 10, 2010, 07:17:59 PM

had we played it right, he might have rescued the lost soul right then and there, giving me outright second.

Hey, I forgot.... who did we end up giving the TXP to? >:c

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2010, 07:44:00 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 06:41:42 PM

New question: I attack with my epic blue hero. The only lost soul is in my opponent's Hormah. They block with some newb. Their newb dies by the numbers. Does Hormah get shuffled before I get my soul?

I'm fairly certain that since Hormah is a triggered ability, it goes under draw pile after the EC dies. But I can't be 100% certain.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2010, 07:44:19 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 07:29:47 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 10, 2010, 07:17:59 PM
had we played it right, he might have rescued the lost soul right then and there, giving me outright second.
Hey, I forgot.... who did we end up giving the TXP to? >:c

true, Jason would have received it because I had a paper...but who needs Rash Oath anyway?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2010, 07:46:38 PM »

I'll give you 1x wrapper for it and 4x Land Disputes. Good deal.

I still don't understand the whole crazy Hormah thing. I'll probably sit here and spam until someone posts some backing, either words from an admin or the REG.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2010, 10:24:32 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 12:17:29 AM

Player A beat player B and C
Player B did not beat player A or C
Player C beat player A.

If another round is impossible, then A should get 1st for beating both the others. C should get 2nd for beating one of the others. And B should get 3rd for beating neither of the others.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:10:02 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 10, 2010, 12:17:29 AM

Player A beat player B and C
Player B did not beat player A or C
Player C beat player A.

Note that this is not explicitly covered in the rules, so any solution offered is going to be a suggestion. Making judgment calls such as this is why hosts get paid the big bucks.

My first instinct would be to declare a three way tie for first, and give Player A the first shot at the winner's promo.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:35:59 AM »

we declared a three way tie and played Rock Paper Scissors for the TexP.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:44:55 AM »

Hormah is a trigger ability. So when their ec dies, it and it's contents go to the bottom. Also if he dies, he can still play dominants before he has a chance to give you a lost soul since they can be played at any time. If I am correct you have a battle resolution phase where you can do something before the lost soul is given. I'm not 100% on that...

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2010, 10:00:40 AM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on April 11, 2010, 09:44:55 AM

Hormah is a trigger ability. So when their ec dies, it and it's contents go to the bottom. Also if he dies,...

he could also use artifacts. For instance, he could use Unknown Nation to bring in another EC and keep fighting. He could use the curse (Madness I think) to turn into a demon that could continue the battle. He could use Unholy Writ to capture your GC. He could bring in another EC who was face-down on Hormah (since you have access). Lots of options to continue the battle after the first EC dies

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2010, 12:17:55 PM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on April 11, 2010, 09:44:55 AM

Hormah is a trigger ability. So when their ec dies, it and it's contents go to the bottom. Also if he dies, he can still play dominants before he has a chance to give you a lost soul since they can be played at any time. If I am correct you have a battle resolution phase where you can do something before the lost soul is given. I'm not 100% on that...

It has been definitively ruled (at least three times since over the past two years) that if all blockers die by the numbers and you discard them, you cannot play a Dominant (i.e., CM or Burial) to prevent the rescue. The battle ends immediately at the discard.

Prof Underwood, if I am not allowed to play a dominant in this situation why can I play Unholy Writ or Unknown Nation or ...?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2010, 01:17:53 PM »

I disagree with Prof/3-Liner and agree with MJB. You'd have to use Writ or Unknown Nation before your EC dies via the numbers.

This was kind of a major ruling. Luckily it didn't affect the results

.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:02:29 PM »

Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Battle Resolution > Hero Wins

Your Hero wins if one of these conditions is met:

• The Hero’s strength is greater than or equal to the Evil Character’s toughness, and the Evil Character’s strength is less than the Hero’s toughness. The Evil Character is discarded, and your Hero withdraws to your territory.

• The Hero ignores the Evil Character. The Hero and the Evil Character each withdraw to his owner’s territory.

• All blocking Evil Characters were removed from battle. Surviving Heroes return to their owners’ territories.

All enhancements played during the Battle Phase (except set-aside or weapon-class enhancements, or cards placed on other cards during battle) are discarded to the respective owner’s discard pile. Assuming no dominants are played during Battle Resolution to prevent it, the rescue attempt is successful, and your opponent must select and surrender to you one available Lost Soul from his Land of Bondage.

---------------------------------------------------------

Based on this quote from the Rulebook (p.30), you can indeed play a dominant after the EC dies by the numbers. Also, if this is a prioritized list (which is how I read it), then the handing over of a lost soul would happen after the EC dies and is discarded, so Hormah would shuffle with the LS.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:18:48 PM »

Wow. I really think the REG is wrong there, I just can't remember who said that winning BTN doesn't allow dominants. Time to go look.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:24:36 PM »

After searching a while, I found this thread http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=15834.0. Schaef answers my question there.

Thanks for everyone's input.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2010, 03:14:34 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 11, 2010, 02:18:48 PM

Wow. I really think the REG is wrong there, I just can't remember who said that winning BTN doesn't allow dominants. Time to go look.

That quote is not from the REG, it is from the 10th Anniversary Rulebook. Schaef's comments in the thread you linked seem to indicate that you cannot play a dominant during Battle Resolution, which is contradictory to the Rulebook. Were Schaef's comments an official overruling of the rulebook?

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Author Topic: Question added..... 4/10 (Read 6300 times)

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