Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I believe this was the exact situation that caused the reexamining in the first place. I know that the top-down rules are that special initiative takes place during the conditions that caused the removal and that CBI abilities always stick. However, I don't remember which takes precedence here. What we really need is a hierarchy of rules so that when they come into conflict we have an order for them.

My memory tells me that it was ruled you can interrupt Herod's Treachery, but that goes against my gut feeling that CBI stickiness is at the top of the rules hierarchy.

With the relatively new rule that you have a chance to negate anything that is removing you from battle in Special Initiative (Foreign Sword to negate Unholy Writ or Magic Charms, etc.), you can definitely target Herod's Treachery with Sam's Edict if your opponent is discarding it to make you withdraw.

Herod Agrippa I changes things though, with his "insteading" of withdraws into CBN captures.  "Insteads" make it so the original special ability never happened (if Herod's Temple "Insteads" Grapes of Wrath, there is/was no shuffle).  So Gideon is never withdrawing.  When he leaves battle, creating what normally would be Special Initiative, the ability making him leave battle is Herod Agrippa I capturing him, which is CBN and thus not negatable.

So it looks like we can put "abilities must complete" and "CBI sticks" above "takes place during removal circumstances" in the hierarchy.

I still use the Angel Wars insert for those rulings, STAMP. It was easy to teach and to learn. I have seen no reason to stop using it.