Author Topic: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge  (Read 1659 times)

Offline DJWeb

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Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« on: November 04, 2013, 09:44:25 PM »
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I have a few questions about this situation:

I have some (let's say 3 evil Assyrians and 2 heroes) characters in City of Refuge in my territory. I also have Protection of Jerusalem in my territory. If I negate CoR (like with Siegeworks), then do all characters come back to my regular territory? Or are they stuck there? Or discarded?

Also if I negate and discard CoR (like with Siege Army), does that trigger PoJ and I get to negate and discard three evil cards?

Thanks for your help.

City of Refuge - Good Fortress - If your human would be removed from the game by an opponent, instead place it here. Protect cards here from effect. If a High Priest is discarded from play, release all characters from here to your territory.

Protection of Jerusalem - Silver Enhancement - Place in your territory: Protect your good O. T. Fortresses from opponents. When you discard an evil Assyrian from play, you may negate and discard an evil card.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 10:03:03 PM »
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If I negate CoR (like with Siegeworks), then do all characters come back to my regular territory? Or are they stuck there? Or discarded?

Nothing happens, as long as the placement of those characters happened in a prior phase.  The placement is an instant ability, and is CBN in the phase after it completed by definition.  They just stay there, unless the ability pairs with something to pull them out.

Also if I negate and discard CoR (like with Siege Army), does that trigger PoJ and I get to negate and discard three evil cards?

Interesting question.  By definition, your ability would not be discarding them, as they are merely following their 'place' location to its eventual location.  However, I would say that your ability sending them to the discard pile, even indirectly, would trigger the condition on PoJ.

I can see that last part either way.  That'll take some Elder explanation.

Offline DJWeb

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 10:13:19 PM »
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If I negate CoR (like with Siegeworks), then do all characters come back to my regular territory? Or are they stuck there? Or discarded?

Nothing happens, as long as the placement of those characters happened in a prior phase.  The placement is an instant ability, and is CBN in the phase after it completed by definition.  They just stay there, unless the ability pairs with something to pull them out.


A follow-up question to that: Could I then discard those Assyrians from CoR (with Seraph with a Live Coal or Angel at Jerusalem) to trigger PoJ again? The protect ability on CoR would still be negated by Siegeworks.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 10:17:07 PM »
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A follow-up question to that: Could I then discard those Assyrians from CoR (with Seraph with a Live Coal or Angel at Jerusalem) to trigger PoJ again? The protect ability on CoR would still be negated by Siegeworks.

Yes, if they are not protected and are in the location that can be targeted (territory), you can discard them and then trigger PoJ.

browarod

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2013, 10:01:46 AM »
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I would rule that you could not use PoJ if your card targeted City of Refuge since the characters are getting discarded by game rule.

This came up in a game I was playing last night, my opponent attacked with Temple Priests (who protect neutral cards from evil cards) I blocked with ASA and negated/discarded his Solomon's Temple that was holding Golden Cherubim. GC still follows ST because game rule is discarding it, not ASA.

As such, you aren't discarding the Assyrians from CoR, the game is.

Not 100% sure, though. :P

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2013, 10:42:31 AM »
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Whether they are discarded by a game rule influenced by your action, or by your special ability, you are still the one discarding them. A common play that I saw before the uniques in play rule was changed was for a player to use Samuel to search for evil King Saul with good King Saul in his territory, and use the automatic discard to trigger Hormah. I would say this is a similar situation.
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browarod

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2013, 11:19:33 AM »
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Hormah doesn't specify who must do the discarding so I don't see how it's similar to PoJ. I was under the impression that game rules weren't owned by any player, however your statements seem to indicate that isn't the case.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2013, 11:47:38 AM »
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Hormah doesn't specify who must do the discarding so I don't see how it's similar to PoJ. I was under the impression that game rules weren't owned by any player, however your statements seem to indicate that isn't the case.

I guess that is true. However, I would still rule that discarding City of Refuge w/Assyrians is you discarding the Assyrians. I can't think of any solid precedent either way, though, so maybe additional input is warranted.
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browarod

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2013, 12:21:16 PM »
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I'd be perfectly fine if it was ruled as you say (more fun with PoJ :D) I just hadn't thought that was the case.

Offline DJWeb

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Re: Protection of Jerusalem and City of Refuge
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 01:12:36 PM »
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Thanks. I guess I will go with that until I hear differently.

 


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