Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 03:56:34 PM

Title: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 03:56:34 PM
Does Isaiah's protection, protect King Hezy from negation?
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Red Wing on March 09, 2012, 04:01:10 PM
King Hezekiah  (Pi) Isaiah  (FF2)

Does Isaiah's protection, protect King Hezy from negation?
No. For example, King of Tyrus  (Wa) could still negate Hezzy's SA even if Isaiah was protecting him.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 04:12:28 PM
King Hezekiah  (Pi) Isaiah  (FF2)

Does Isaiah's protection, protect King Hezy from negation?
No. For example, King of Tyrus  (Wa) could still negate Hezzy's SA even if Isaiah was protecting him.

But Hezy would still be protected much like Oak's protect of Samson correct?
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:15:26 PM
King Hezekiah  (Pi) Isaiah  (FF2)

Does Isaiah's protection, protect King Hezy from negation?
No. For example, King of Tyrus  (Wa) could still negate Hezzy's SA even if Isaiah was protecting him.

But Hezy would still be protected much like Oak's protect of Samson correct?

Oak's protection does not Protect Gideon from negation, but there is no point in attempting to negate Gideon so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 04:17:57 PM
King Hezekiah  (Pi) Isaiah  (FF2)

Does Isaiah's protection, protect King Hezy from negation?
No. For example, King of Tyrus  (Wa) could still negate Hezzy's SA even if Isaiah was protecting him.

But Hezy would still be protected much like Oak's protect of Samson correct?

Oak's protection does not Protect Gideon from negation, but there is no point in attempting to negate Gideon so it's a moot point.

I mean that since Isaiah's protect of purple king's is CBN, then Hezy would still be protected after Isaiah is kicked out of battle.

I guess my question should be to what point does protected from opponents extend? (or rather what does "protect xxxxx from opponents" protect from?)
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:25:43 PM

I mean that since Isaiah's protect of purple king's is CBN, then Hezy would still be protected after Isaiah is kicked out of battle.

I guess my question should be to what point does protected from opponents extend? (or rather what does "protect xxxxx from opponents" protect from?)

Hezzy is still protected after Isiah is kicked out, but you cannot be protected from being negated(game rule).  So he cannot be targeted by your oppents.  In the case of Gideon he is protected from being discarded by the numbers as well due to the wording of The Angel Under the Oak  (RA2) .  Hezzy might still be able to die by the numbers because he is only protected from your opponets, not their cards.  But I am unsure of that last statement.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 04:30:03 PM

I mean that since Isaiah's protect of purple king's is CBN, then Hezy would still be protected after Isaiah is kicked out of battle.

I guess my question should be to what point does protected from opponents extend? (or rather what does "protect xxxxx from opponents" protect from?)

Hezzy is still protected after Isiah is kicked out, but you cannot be protected from being negated(game rule).  So he cannot be targeted by your oppents.  In the case of Gideon he is protected from being discarded by the numbers as well due to the wording of The Angel Under the Oak  (RA2) .  Hezzy might still be able to die by the numbers because he is only protected from your opponets, not their cards.  But I am unsure of that last statement.

The wording on Isaiah is exactly the same (excluding the obvious fact that the subject is different, ie purple kings vs. Samson):
Isaiah- Protect purple Kings from opponents.
Oak- Protect Gideon from opponents.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:33:27 PM

I mean that since Isaiah's protect of purple king's is CBN, then Hezy would still be protected after Isaiah is kicked out of battle.

I guess my question should be to what point does protected from opponents extend? (or rather what does "protect xxxxx from opponents" protect from?)

Hezzy is still protected after Isiah is kicked out, but you cannot be protected from being negated(game rule).  So he cannot be targeted by your oppents.  In the case of Gideon he is protected from being discarded by the numbers as well due to the wording of The Angel Under the Oak  (RA2) .  Hezzy might still be able to die by the numbers because he is only protected from your opponets, not their cards.  But I am unsure of that last statement.

The wording on Isaiah is exactly the same:
Isaiah- Protect purple Kings from opponents.
Oak- Protect Gideon from opponents.

Doh, I thought that Oak said cards.  Yes then Hezzy would be bullet proof, just negated. 
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 09, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
Wait, Korunks, I'm confused what you're telling him. Isaiah protects Hezekiah from being discarded even by the numbers.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:40:31 PM
Wait, Korunks, I'm confused what you're telling him. Isaiah protects Hezekiah from being discarded even by the numbers.

Yeah I acknowledged that with my previous statement, he is bullet proof, AKA cannot be discarded, or targeted,.  Hence my previous statement.  I mis remembered  the card.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 04:41:21 PM

I mean that since Isaiah's protect of purple king's is CBN, then Hezy would still be protected after Isaiah is kicked out of battle.

I guess my question should be to what point does protected from opponents extend? (or rather what does "protect xxxxx from opponents" protect from?)

Hezzy is still protected after Isiah is kicked out, but you cannot be protected from being negated(game rule).  So he cannot be targeted by your oppents.  In the case of Gideon he is protected from being discarded by the numbers as well due to the wording of The Angel Under the Oak  (RA2) .  Hezzy might still be able to die by the numbers because he is only protected from your opponets, not their cards.  But I am unsure of that last statement.

The wording on Isaiah is exactly the same:
Isaiah- Protect purple Kings from opponents.
Oak- Protect Gideon from opponents.

Doh, I thought that Oak said cards.  Yes then Hezzy would be bullet proof, just negated.

Well this is good news, King Hezzy+Isaiah+Isaiah's Call= bulletproof negate evil characters band meaning with Isaiah's Call, KoT would not negate Hezzy because KoT would be negated =)
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:56:21 PM
I'm still fuzzy on how KoT can negate Hezzy's band?  If Hezzy is protected from the entire KoT card, including negation because it's CBN, then how does KoT break through to negate the band?

You cannot be protected from Negation, and while Isiah is CBN Hezzy is not, so He is not protected from KoT's negation.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 09, 2012, 04:57:09 PM
I'm still fuzzy on how KoT can negate Hezzy's band?  If Hezzy is protected from the entire KoT card, including negation because it's CBN, then how does KoT break through to negate the band?

Hezekiah is indeed an Isaiah card, but CBN status can't be granted after the fact.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Korunks on March 09, 2012, 04:59:22 PM
I'm still fuzzy on how KoT can negate Hezzy's band?  If Hezzy is protected from the entire KoT card, including negation because it's CBN, then how does KoT break through to negate the band?

Hezekiah is indeed an Isaiah card, but CBN status can't be granted after the fact.

Hezekiah is 2 Kings, not Isiah.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 09, 2012, 05:04:55 PM
Well darn, what scenario am I thinking of where this came up? One of the angels maybe?
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 09, 2012, 05:19:33 PM
I'm still fuzzy on how KoT can negate Hezzy's band?  If Hezzy is protected from the entire KoT card, including negation because it's CBN, then how does KoT break through to negate the band?

Hezekiah is indeed an Isaiah card, but CBN status can't be granted after the fact.

You're missing the point.  Isaiah is not granting CBN status to Hezzy's SA.  Isaiah is granting CBN protection to Hezzy from opponent's cards.  KoT can't get through the protection to negate the band, even though the band is not CBN.

King of Tyrus does indeed negate the band unless Isaiah has Call on him.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 05:31:32 PM
So, if King Hezekiah (or any other character) is mentioned in multiple books, it does not include them as a character from the books not on the card itself correct?
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: adotson85 on March 09, 2012, 05:35:14 PM
So, if King Hezekiah (or any other character) is mentioned in multiple books, it does not include them as a character from the books not on the card itself correct?

Correct. For example: Moses is a Judge, but is not a Judges card since his reference is not from the book of Judges.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 05:37:02 PM
So, if King Hezekiah (or any other character) is mentioned in multiple books, it does not include them as a character from the books not on the card itself correct?

Correct. For example: Moses is a Judge, but is not a Judges card since his reference is not from the book of Judges.

Hezekiah is in the book of Isaiah and in 2 Kings... but would not be an Isaiah card correct? Just want to be clear on this issue
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2012, 05:39:19 PM
Stamp, Protection never protects from Negation. That's why KoT can Negate Hezzy even though he's protected.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2012, 06:15:09 PM
Quote
I'll start with why you're wrong.  Protection does protect from negation if the protection cannot be negated.
Actually, you're wrong. Under no circumstances does Protect ever protect from Negation. There's a different ability for "protecting" from Negation and that's "Cannot be Negated."
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 06:17:36 PM
So, if King Hezekiah (or any other character) is mentioned in multiple books, it does not include them as a character from the books not on the card itself correct?

Correct. For example: Moses is a Judge, but is not a Judges card since his reference is not from the book of Judges.

Hezekiah is in the book of Isaiah and in 2 Kings... but would not be an Isaiah card correct? Just want to be clear on this issue

I like all the playful banter and all but my above question still stands lol =D
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2012, 06:22:47 PM
Hezekiah is a II Kings character. If there were ever a card referencing Heroes mentioned in Isaiah, Hezekiah would count, but characters are only X characters if the card itself has a reference from X.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: theselfevident on March 09, 2012, 06:25:03 PM
Hezekiah is a II Kings character. If there were ever a card referencing Heroes mentioned in Isaiah, Hezekiah would count, but characters are only X characters if the card itself has a reference from X.

I assumed that was the case but wanted to ensure that I was under the proper assumption. Thank you.
Title: Re: Protection
Post by: STAMP on March 09, 2012, 07:30:50 PM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmediaserver01.stockfood.com%2Fwmpreviews%2FMTI0MjE1MDA%3D%2F00955500.jpg&hash=4730f90097532432d7317e6704cd4df2de8c3fb6)
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal