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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on May 08, 2013, 10:57:48 PM
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Scenario 1: My opponent attacks me. I block with a mounted Crimson character and play Great Image. My opponent plays a banding enhancement and brings in Phinehas son of Eleazar. Do his heroes in territory die after battle?
Scenario 2: I activate Stalks of Flax and exchange two of my heroes with two of opponent's heroes. I then put them in Goshen (Warriors). When two turns are up, do they transfer back to my opponent's territory?
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1) If the banding enhancement had an interrupt, then yes (because it interrupts GI and sets up protection before GI reactivates). If it doesn't interrupt, I think it would still protect them but I'm not sure.
2) Goshen protects from all effects, which I would think includes Stalks of Flax's return effect. As soon as Goshen is negated they'd be returned, but otherwise I'd think they could stay there.
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2) Goshen protects from all effects, which I would think includes Stalks of Flax's return effect. As soon as Goshen is negated they'd be returned, but otherwise I'd think they could stay there.
If this is the case, would you still get your heroes back?
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2087 TeP_StalksofFlax.jpg Stalks of Flax - Joshua 2:6 - A On activation, discard this card to exchange two O.T. human Heroes in your territory with two Heroes in an opponent's territory for two turns. N
2. It seems like this play should work, however it has been ruled that it does not and the opponent gets back thier heros (even in Goshen) after 2 turns.
Bryon ruled on a game at a NATS on Red Dragon Thorn that the hero's exchange back but RDT disagree's here: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/stalks-of-flax-goshen/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/stalks-of-flax-goshen/)
then Gabe asked again later: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/stalks-of-flax-and-protection/msg416337/#msg416337 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/stalks-of-flax-and-protection/msg416337/#msg416337)
Stalks is just an extremely messy card in the first place. I'd rule that an exchange with a duration expiring is not a harm or effect, but a game rule (when the duration of an exchange ends, any exchanged cards still in play return). Again for trepidation about casting a big net for what an "effect" is.
Polarius
Can we get an official ruling on this please?
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Exchange is an instant ability (according to the REG) and instant abilities are carried out immediately. However Stalks of Flax has one major difference than most exchange abilities, it exchanges only for a limited duration (2 turns), that means Stalks is an exception to the rule of instant abilities either way, it's either a continuous ability (like Immunity or something) which is counter intuitive, but does allow the "exchange back" if in Goshen since nothing is affecting the characters, the time just expired and they return to their original locations because they are no longer exchanged (much like how "Until the end of Battle" abilities end when the battle is over)
The other option is that it is an instant ability (exchange) and a delayed trigger ability (Return all cards exchanged with this card to their original locations in the upkeep 2 turns later). This one is the more intuitive one (at least in Redemption players minds) since there are very few time based actions in Redemption. In this case Goshen should protect from the exchange and it should allow for character taking.
I would suggest that the first one makes the most sense for Stalks of Flax to work be ruled as, since it is worded with a duration and it is how it has been ruled. However I'm not opposed to changing that.
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1. Regardless of whether GI is interrupted, Phinehas would protect the Heroes in your territory because GI does nothing on activation but set up a trigger. It doesn't target until the battle concludes, it doesn't discard until the battle concludes, any number of things can happen afterwards to alter which Heroes would be discarded (or, in this case, protect said Heroes from discard).
2. I agree with previous posts that it's a bit muddy at this point.
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You don't have to play an interrupt to protect your Heros from great image. The discard is triggered by the battle ending so as long as you can get a protect up then your Heros are safe. An end the battle ability would also work.
(Instaposted)
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I view the heroes returning from Stalks of Flax the same way as I view heroes returning from set aside after spending a couple turns there with Provisions. It's just something that happens by game rule (cards that are put somewhere for a set amount of time return where they came from, after that time), and therefore would be unaffected by protection (of Goshen, etc.).
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Brow and Jmbeers are correct on GI. This had been ruled on similarly with Angel of God saving Israelite Archer (though now that I think about it, that should no longer work, as IA can't protect himself...).
I think I agree with Prof U on Stalks, but it might be a stickier issue than can be ruled on simply.
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Brow and Jmbeers are correct on GI. This had been ruled on similarly with Angel of God saving Israelite Archer (though now that I think about it, that should no longer work, as IA can't protect himself...).
But IA isn't protecting himself - AoG is protecting him. ???
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I of course meant to say that IA can't be protected from himself. So even though AoG is doing the protecting, IA is the one doing the discarding.
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2087 TeP_StalksofFlax.jpg Stalks of Flax - Joshua 2:6 - A On activation, discard this card to exchange two O.T. human Heroes in your territory with two Heroes in an opponent's territory for two turns. N
This is just a side note, but you don't have to copy abilities from Cards.txt anymore:
http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Stalks_of_Flax_(TP) (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Stalks_of_Flax_(TP))
see this thread for more info: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/the-reg-reborn/ (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/the-reg-reborn/)
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I of course meant to say that IA can't be protected from himself. So even though AoG is doing the protecting, IA is the one doing the discarding.
So Protection of Jerusalem (old) cannot save High Places from being discarded if it captures a hero in a territory?
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I of course meant to say that IA can't be protected from himself. So even though AoG is doing the protecting, IA is the one doing the discarding.
So Protection of Jerusalem (old) cannot save High Places from being discarded if it captures a hero in a territory?
Only characters cannot be protected from themselves, other card types can. High Places can be protected from being discarded by old PoJ