Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Protection of Jerusalem (FF2)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place in your territory: Protect your good O.T. Fortresses from opponents. When you discard an evil Assyrian from play, you may negate and discard an evil card. • Play As: Place in your territory. While it remains there, protect your good O.T. Fortresses from opponents. When you discard an evil Assyrian from play, you may negate and discard an evil card. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Isaiah 37:35 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers Extended booster packs (None)

Death of Unrighteous (Pa)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Shuffle all Lost Souls and sites in holder's Land of Bondage into owner's draw pile. Discard all Evil Characters in battle. • Play As: Shuffle [return] all Lost Souls, sites, and evil cards in sites in your Land of Bondage into your deck. Discard all Evil Characters in battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 7:23 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)

I have Prot o Jeru in play. I play DOU on my assyrian. Do I get to D/C and evil card from opponents territory?

Also, how are people making the title of cards where you get to hover over it and it shows the card? They are also doing it in deck design with decks and it is really cool.
Thanks!

That works.

Protection of Jerusalem

I hit the # sign above the face icons--I must be doing this wrong.
-help! 

FWiW, be careful about playing it on an active Assyrian Survivor as PoJ won't fire due to the capture.

FWiW, be careful about playing it on an active Assyrian Survivor as PoJ won't fire due to the capture.

Wait, what? I thought he had to be discarded before he could be defeated, triggering PoJ before it triggers Survivor. If that's true, my Lamenting deck was quite possibly the worst deck I've ever built. And that's saying something.

Insteading undoes the initial ability before it happens, but Soul Survivor is not an instead ability. He is Discarded, then Captured.

This is how I've always understood this ability (and a couple of others, like PG Panic Demon).  DoU would still discard him, he would just then get captured.  It is not an instead as I understand it in the line of Wandering Spirit, Gates of Hell, Chamber of Angels, Obi-Wan's Caves, etc.

Instead is not an ability so that language won't affect this ruling. The concept is the same.

From the REG:

Instead

Cards that use the word "instead" replace an effect with a different effect.  When a card has a new effect applied to it "instead", it is not considered to have the original effect applied to it in any way. As such, "instead" implies a "would be" condition for the original effect (e.g. "if your character [would be] discarded...")

Assyrian Survivor (FF2)

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Protected from discard abilities on opponent’s cards. If defeated, capture to opponent's Land of Bondage. Cannot be interrupted.

Defeat                           

Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

You are correct, sir.  I was thinking that the card was worded differently (something like the PG Panic Demon).  However, in this case it should not trigger PoJ for the reasons outlined.

right and cards that end up somewhere other then a set location don't pay the cost hence lazarus + masters table = broken so again no unless survivor remains in discard it was captured ty

Defeat                           

Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

However, with DOU's discard, doesn't the Assyrian Survivor achieve its goal by stopping the hero from making a successful rescue?

Quote

    Defeat                           

    Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

The RA fails, but Survivor is still defeated as he was still discarded. The discard happens. there is no ignoring that. If you want DoU to work, Survivor is discarded. If you want Survivor to be captured Survivor is still discarded. And seeing as the person who played DoU is the person who had PoJ in play he still discarded an Assyrian. You can't argue that everything happened but the discard because for any of it to happen, Survivor has to be defeated, which in this case means discarded.

Praeceps is correct. Assyrian Survivor's condition of "defeated" has nothing to do with whether or not the hero got a Lost Soul, it merely has to do with the state of Assyrian Survivor. When he's discarded his self-capture ability kicks in.

It seems that defeated needs to be redefined in the REG

except abilities must complete therefore survivor is captured and no longer discarded when poj checks cause if it worked your way i could block with king omri use gates with the searched for samaria play shimeis malicious curse and say i had still searched for a site so the decrease still happens. same thing

except abilities must complete therefore survivor is captured and no longer discarded when poj checks cause if it worked your way i could block with king omri use gates with the searched for samaria play shimeis malicious curse and say i had still searched for a site so the decrease still happens. same thing

Except that Omri's ability is being negated. DoU is not being negated, so AS is discarded.