Author Topic: Lost soul "Must be rescue by hero /4 or higher" and variable toughness heroes (Read 2282 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** February 15, 2010, 03:07:05 PM »

What if Susanna were to start a rescue attempt when there are 4 NT female heroes in play, so she is 1/4 (her toughness is equal to the number of female NT heroes in play). Then she is blocked by a 1/1 EC who plays something to get rid of one of those female NT heroes not in the battle, then the EC dies. The only Lost Soul available is the "hero with toughness /4 or higher."

Is Susanna now 1/3 and not able to rescue the lost soul?

Thanks.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:09:32 PM »

I believe that X is a dynamic variable, so she wouldn't be able to rescue the soul.

Rubber band warrior · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:11:09 PM »

I agree, FWIW.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:38:27 PM »

Thanks! As a follow up though, were this a different type of hero with a "set" toughness (say /5), and then in the battle I play Plagued with Diseases (reducing them to toughness 2 or 3 till end of turn), would THIS hero be allowed to get the lost soul? Thanks again.

Rubber band warrior · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:16:00 PM »

I don't think so, definitely not if it's until the end of the turn.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:22:34 PM »

Interestingly, the "Current REG" is contradictory with regard to Susanna:

Other Abilities > Variable Value (x/x) > How to Play

Cards that describe variable values of the strength and stamina values or abilities (*/*) use an asterisk. Cards that describe a variable number of targets use the letter “x” to represent the value in the special ability. Both of the definitions that determine the value of the “*” or “x” are described on the card itself. The value of “*” may be dynamic and change as long as the card remains in the game. The value of “x” is static and should be determined at the time the special ability that contains it is activated.

The last sentence (as written) would suggest that Susanna's toughness is static once she enters battle, since it uses the "x" designation. However, the first sentence suggests that toughness should have been written with an asterik. Clearly the intent is for her toughness to be dynamic (like an asterick designation), but a literal challenge in a tournament using the "Current REG" could lead to a host ruling her ability as static.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »

That section was clearly made before TexP...this definitely needs fixin'.

SirNobody · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2010, 08:46:15 PM »

Hey,

Variable strength and toughness are always dynamic, variables is special abilities are never dynamic.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:31:06 PM »

I know that and you know that, but a passerby new host could easily just read that last sentence ("skip to the end") and make an incorrect ruling.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:42:46 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on February 15, 2010, 08:46:15 PM

Hey,

Variable strength and toughness are always dynamic, variables is special abilities are never dynamic.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

That section of the REG could easily be changed to: "When * or X are strength or toughness, they are dynamic; when they are in an SA, they are static." To avoid confusion. And we all know what happens when there's confusion--our Son of God gets discarded.

lightningninja · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:43:15 AM »

Quote from: SirNobody on February 15, 2010, 08:46:15 PM

Hey,

Variable strength and toughness are always dynamic, variables is special abilities are never dynamic.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Sorry could you explain "dynamic" and "non-dynamic?" I'm not familiar with those terms.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:50:31 AM »

Dynamic means it can change based on changing situations. So if I attack with Susanna and there are four female NT heroes in play, I am 1/4. If one of the other female NTs leave play while Susanna is still in battle, she becomes 1/3.

Non-dynamic, or static, means that X is always equal to what it was when it was played. If a card says "holder's heroes gain X/X", and X=number of good brigades in play, then X/X stays the same no matter how many good brigades are introduced to or removed from play.

Bryon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:23:10 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on February 15, 2010, 08:46:15 PM

Variable strength and toughness are always dynamic, variables is special abilities are never dynamic.

Hmm. Have I been playing Zebulun wrong.

I thought that variables in instant abilities were static, but variables in stats and ongoing abilities are dynamic.

Doesn't the brown decreaser curse switch to decreasing by 0/3 as soon as you have the fewest redeemed souls. This is not really an "x" question, but rather a question of how often "checks" are performed during ongoing abilities, right? Don't ongoing abilities have continual checks, including checking variable values?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:25:17 PM »

That's what I've always thought, but the REG says otherwise. I think it makes the most intuitive sense.

Tracer Burnout · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2010, 02:54:36 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 16, 2010, 01:23:10 PM

Hmm. Have I been playing Zebulun wrong.

So does this mean that: I have 4 cards in my hand when I attempt a rescue with Zeb, so I'll have 5 after I draw. So say I draw Guardian of Your Souls....If I play that immediately does his ability move from 5 to 4 or does it stay at 5 regardless of how many cards I have in my hand?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 02:59:38 PM »

Quote from: Tracer Burnout on February 16, 2010, 02:54:36 PM

Quote from: Bryon on February 16, 2010, 01:23:10 PM
Hmm. Have I been playing Zebulun wrong.

So does this mean that: I have 4 cards in my hand when I attempt a rescue with Zeb, so I'll have 5 after I draw. So say I draw Guardian of Your Souls....If I play that immediately does his ability move from 5 to 4 or does it stay at 5 regardless of how many cards I have in my hand?

I've always played that it would go to 4 in this case, and I think that even with the REG rule, this could still be the case, since the REG only talks about * and X, of which Zebulun has neither.

Tracer Burnout · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 03:06:55 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on February 16, 2010, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: Tracer Burnout on February 16, 2010, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: Bryon on February 16, 2010, 01:23:10 PM
Hmm. Have I been playing Zebulun wrong.

So does this mean that: I have 4 cards in my hand when I attempt a rescue with Zeb, so I'll have 5 after I draw. So say I draw Guardian of Your Souls....If I play that immediately does his ability move from 5 to 4 or does it stay at 5 regardless of how many cards I have in my hand?

I've always played that it would go to 4 in this case, and I think that even with the REG rule, this could still be the case, since the REG only talks about * and X, of which Zebulun has neither.

I as well have only played it this way. I just wanted to make sure I'm on path doing right. Thanks.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2010, 04:40:22 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on February 16, 2010, 01:23:10 PM

This is not really an "x" question, but rather a question of how often "checks" are performed during ongoing abilities, right? Don't ongoing abilities have continual checks, including checking variable values?

His statement specified "variables." Does the "New REG" distinguish between * and X (no matter where they appear), and separately distinguish dynamic and static? I'm just curious how much detail we can expect in the next iteration.

SirNobody · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2010, 09:03:14 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Professoralstad on February 16, 2010, 02:59:38 PM

since the REG only talks about * and X, of which Zebulun has neither.

This is the key. My comment was only referring to * and X. Conditions are checked constantly thus who Zebulun ignores can change over the course of the battle.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

stefferweffer · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 11:56:58 AM »

Yeah, I wonder if anyone has ever played Mayhem suddenly so that they have an EC who can block Zebulun.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:03:01 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on February 17, 2010, 11:56:58 AM

Yeah, I wonder if anyone has ever played Mayhem suddenly so that they have an EC who can block Zebulun.

I would almost guarantee it. Although, a lot of Zeb players that I've seen have no hand or no deck at the time that they start using him, so Mayhem wouldn't really help in that situation.

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Author Topic: Lost soul "Must be rescue by hero /4 or higher" and variable toughness heroes (Read 2282 times)

Tracer Burnout

Tracer Burnout