Author Topic: Priestly Breastplate...  (Read 8019 times)

Offline Minister Polarius

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15920
  • Grand Minister of Music and Video Games
    • -
    • East Central Region
    • Macclelland Music
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2010, 08:30:59 PM »
0
There's only official and not official. He is of the latter variety.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Wings of Music

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1002
  • ~Matthew 5:8~
    • -
    • Southwest Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2010, 08:33:48 PM »
0
Ok, guys! Hold on. I know you are argueing over who's word can verified as a rule, but that still leaves my question lingering in the air...
...ellipses...

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2010, 08:37:20 PM »
0
Right now, under the current rules you cannot have PB activated on a priest with another on the pile.
www.covenantgames.com

Offline Master KChief

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6963
  • Greatness, at any cost.
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • GameStop
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2010, 08:38:41 PM »
0
i find maly sound enough to officially rule. after all, as rdt stated, he is a playtester, moderater of this forum, writer of the new reg, and pretty much a walking REG. thats really enough credentials in my book.

although, i do understand polarius side...maly is sometimes wrong, and sometimes i feel he could be a bit bias when he makes rulings from the new reg. i do so hate to see him refer to something that we have no hard copy of yet. :)
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline Prof Underwood

  • Redemption Elder
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2010, 11:01:18 PM »
0
[Tim Maly] is still more official than anyone else except Bryon/Rob/Schaef, and I'll add Mike Berkenpas to that list.
I agree with RDT.  When I look at rulings by people over the last several years on this forum, this is my observation:

Rob - right 100% of the time in controversies
Bryon - right 99% of the time in controversies
Berkenpas - right 99% of the time in controversies
Schaef - right 90% of the time in controversies
Maly - right 80% of the time in controversies

All of these percentages are higher than other members of the board, and any ruling by any one of these 5 people should be considered official unless someone above them contradicts.  Because this ruling goes against the status quo for Priestly Breastplate ever since it came out, I wouldn't be surprised if a host ruled it differently.  But unless someone higher than Tim contradicts Tim, I think his ruling should be taken as official.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15781
  • Currently undead
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2010, 12:20:25 AM »
0
He's more official than you. And as of the current moment he's more official than Gabe. I won't argue Scheaf though. And no he doesn't have rubber-stamp, but until one of the other big guys says contrary to him his ruling should be considered official.
Or the rules say he is wrong, or general opinion says hes wrong, or one random person does ;) thats just how these boards work

I agree with Pol, Maly is not official, though he is right 65% of the time, he is wrong as well pretty often (I only say this because I have been on both sides of those arguments in being wrong and right) and in so shouldn't be considered as "Oh, Maly posted it must be right". He is VERY good at rulings but maybe its just because of the amount of arguments we've clashed in but I don't consider him official. Its all a matter of opinion though.
Not quite a ghost...but not quite not.

Offline Minister Polarius

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15920
  • Grand Minister of Music and Video Games
    • -
    • East Central Region
    • Macclelland Music
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2010, 02:13:33 AM »
0
See, I think the fact that there is argument over whether he is official is a good indicator that he is not. Nobody contests Schaef, Rob, Bryon, or Berkenpas.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2010, 02:17:43 AM »
0
That's false.

We contest Schaef all the time, Berkenpas so rarely posts that its hard to contest him. Bryon usually stands with Tim, and gets contested on a mildly frequent basis. Rob is the only person that no one actually contests.
www.covenantgames.com

Offline Master KChief

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6963
  • Greatness, at any cost.
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • GameStop
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2010, 02:18:47 AM »
0
i contest rob!!!1!!!!!1111!!1!!!1! :)
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2010, 02:20:29 AM »
0
You would.

I'm calling Schaef for a banhammer.
www.covenantgames.com

Offline Minister Polarius

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15920
  • Grand Minister of Music and Video Games
    • -
    • East Central Region
    • Macclelland Music
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2010, 02:20:34 AM »
0
Nobody contests that they are official when they make a rubber stamp. However, they tend to not rubber stamp anything until there is a consensus reached. I think that's the #1 reason Malay is a tier below. He does not state his opinion on the issue, let the argument play out, consult the "other" official people, and then make a ruling. He just makes a ruling based on his own understanding and reading of the situation, then half the time it's overturned in the same thread. That's really the big reason I don't consider him official, because he states his opinion as fact.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Master KChief

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6963
  • Greatness, at any cost.
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • GameStop
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2010, 02:24:33 AM »
0
that is eerily true, now that i think about it.

i think there should be a system where at least 2 or more ptb weigh in on the issue, consult each other, reach a decision, then officially rubber stamp it. that would make things simpler.
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2010, 02:26:51 AM »
0
Bryon tends to state his opinions as fact also.

Also keep in mind that there is a whole side-board for the playtesters. For all we know Tim could just be the fall guy.
www.covenantgames.com

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2010, 03:16:14 AM »
0
Back to the original discussion, I don't see why placing for artifacts should be any different than any other card, it stays there until its removed by an effect, the only issue with PB is that you couldn't deactivate it.  As far as I know this (I think logical and consistent) ruling would only affect the one card (at the moment)
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2010, 03:43:59 AM »
0
Here's the logic behind the ruling:

The rules state that during your preperation phase you can activate one artifact.
They also state that activations last for a round, at which point you must either choose to re-activate the same artifact, or activate a different one.

These rules are of course, overridable with a special abilty, ala Solomon's Temple.

Priestly Breastplate's special ability does not account for any type of 'extra' or 'special' activation, it simply defines an alternative location for it to be placed, It needs to be activated first in order to be moved. Place and Holds are two different abilities.

This is the reason that Solomon's Temple, High Priests Palace, Simon of Cyrene, etc. allow for the second activation of an artifact, because they specifically say to activate the artifact on them, thus overriding the one per turn ruling.

The only card that is a mild contradiction, creating confusion here is Magic Charms. The reason that Magic Charms and Priestly Breastplate are differnt is because Charms has a 'Holds' identifier, while Breastplate has a 'Place' Ability.

In response to ChristianSoldier - Cards stay until removed by effect, or game rule. game rule is that all artifacts deactivate, or get reactivated (thus using the single activation).
www.covenantgames.com

Offline egilkinc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2010, 06:18:44 AM »
0
hey,
I recognize the limitations of a volunteer-based system (Rob is the only one "paid" to make rulings), but I have been curious for a while as to why we haven't implemented some sort of official panel with a structured way of making rulings. Even early on in the game, I was asking "how will the judge rule it at nationals", and it seems it hasn't gotten beyond a game of "who's more official?" as evidenced in this thread. In fact, everyone but Rob is second-guessed and I'm not sure it should be left at this - rather, I think it can and should be improved. Is there some way we could open a discussion on the best way of doing this?
L8er,
Gil

Offline Red

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • It takes time to build the boat.
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2010, 08:56:39 AM »
0
You guys forgot Eric Largent. In your list he is more offical than shceaf.
Ironman 2016 and 2018 Winner.
3rd T1-2P 2018, 3rd T2-2P 2019
I survived the Flood twice.

Offline Alex_Olijar

  • 16plus
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • *
  • Posts: 8124
  • This guy is my mascot
    • -
    • Northeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2010, 12:42:45 PM »
0
You guys forgot Eric Largent. In your list he is more offical than shceaf.

Not at all. Schaef is the visible manifestation of the PTB on the boards. That alone makes him more official than Largent. Largent is on Maly's tier, but below Tim. The problem is we can't decide where that is.

Offline Red

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • It takes time to build the boat.
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2010, 12:55:12 PM »
0
Largent has been playtesting sence womens that makes him above Maly even if he never posts.
Ironman 2016 and 2018 Winner.
3rd T1-2P 2018, 3rd T2-2P 2019
I survived the Flood twice.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15781
  • Currently undead
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2010, 12:59:51 PM »
0
Largent has been playtesting sence womens that makes him above Maly even if he never posts.
No, it doesn't. I respect Mr. Largent very much but he is a playtester, not a ruling official.
Not quite a ghost...but not quite not.

Offline Red

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
  • It takes time to build the boat.
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2010, 01:00:37 PM »
0
There's a diffence?
Ironman 2016 and 2018 Winner.
3rd T1-2P 2018, 3rd T2-2P 2019
I survived the Flood twice.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15781
  • Currently undead
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2010, 01:08:12 PM »
0
Yes. A playtester helps make the cards. Someone who is considered an "Official" in the ruling section has a bit of weight to their opinion because they have proved (On many occasions) that they get ruling questions right.
Not quite a ghost...but not quite not.

slugfencer

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2010, 02:56:54 PM »
0
Dear Playtesters,

Please give us an errata to make us useful.  :'(

Love,
Priestly Breastplate
and Split Alter
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 04:23:58 PM by slugfencer »

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2010, 03:04:15 PM »
0
In response to ChristianSoldier - Cards stay until removed by effect, or game rule. game rule is that all artifacts deactivate, or get reactivated (thus using the single activation).

Enhancements normally get discarded after battle and "place" overrules that, why not the same thing for artifacts?

And I think "Hold" and "Place" are different and Magic Charms says "May be activated on your Magician" which is different than "May be placed on a good High Priest when activated."
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Prof Underwood

  • Redemption Elder
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Priestly Breastplate...
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2010, 04:58:24 PM »
0
Dear Playtesters,
Please give us an errata to make us useful.  :'(
Love,
Priestly Breastplate
and Split Alter
I'm sorry that card was not worded correctly.
I appreciate Bryon's apology here, and encourage everyone to stop being upset about Split Altar.  Yes it was a mistake, but they have admitted it and apologized.  There is no reason to keep bringing it up.  Let's just move on.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal