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Pride of Simon (G)

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: none • Special Ability: If used by a human evil character, search discard pile for a black brigade enhancement and play it. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Acts 8:18 • Availability: G Deck

Creation of the World (Pa)

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Take all Heroes having a Genesis reference out of your draw pile and band them into the Field of Battle. • Play As: Search deck for all Genesis Heroes and band them into battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 1:1 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Uncommon)

Pride of Simon is in the battle and my opponent plays Creation of the World what happens?

I'm not quite sure what special interaction you expect there to be between these cards, but I would say your opponent simply searches his deck for all Genesis Heroes and bands them into battle.

Herod prevents the banding, so the search still happens, and the heroes are sent to hand.

When a search ability does not specify a location, it defaults to hand.

Creation of the World (Pa)
Play As: Search deck for all Genesis Heroes and band them into battle.

Kittens is correct.  This is a case of "do all that you can" of an ability.  This ability has 2 parts.  The first part is to search deck for all Gen Heroes (which you can do) and band them into battle (which you can NOT do).  So you just do the 1st part of the ability and that leaves all the Gen heroes in your hand, and leaves you hoping your opp doesn't have the Speed-Bump LS out

Okay if that is true why does this card not work that way?

Zaccheus (Ap)

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 5 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card. Shuffle draw pile.

So by what your saying that Fortress should go into your hand correct? But in the REC its stats this

Zaccheus (Ap)

• Play As: You may search deck for one Fortress card and put it in play. •

Okay we are trying really hard to want to play this game but without a set of rules that is correct in all instances its almost impossible. Where can I get a set of rules that is correct because the ones online all have conflicts as I pointed out with Zac.

I have been playing CCGs for almost 17 years and this is the first one that i have ever played that uses 3 or 4 different words for the same ability ie Search, Take and Look all mean search. This is confusing for a lot of people example see my post about Hezekiah's Signet Ring vs John. Two people posted that they think look is different from search and John's ability still works. the post from Somekittens stats that look is the same as search and there for dosent work.

I have been playing CCGs for almost 17 years and this is the first one that i have ever played that uses 3 or 4 different words for the same ability ie Search, Take and Look all mean search. This is confusing for a lot of people example see my post about Hezekiah's Signet Ring vs John. Two people posted that they think look is different from search and John's ability still works. the post from Somekittens stats that look is the same as search and there for dosent work.

Part of the reason for that is what makes Redemption unique: for better or worse, the creator of the game, Rob, has determined not to ban cards. So as language evolves to become more streamlined (as it has been in the past several years) we are still stuck with cards that have archaic language from the game's earlier years. Look used to be a search ability, but it was decided that look abilities allow you to look at a certain amount of cards (in John's case, the whole deck) and return them either where they were, or to a certain other location depending on what the card says. Search means you are trying to get a certain card, and you always shuffle the deck. They are different abilities, and so Hezzy's Ring will not stop John.

One of the other reasons why Redemption's rules are not always up to date is that we have a card base of 2200+ cards, many of them with old, outdated language, and the only people available to help sort the rules out are a group of volunteers. We do what we can, but Cactus is too small to have a large set of rules lawyers on retainer like I'm sure some other CCG's do. My hope is that the community here will help to answer your questions as they come up, and that you can find Redemption to be a fun, albeit often confusing game.

The main problem we are having is when we differ in opinion as to how something works. We had a situation tonight where i played the LS that makes your opponents Reveal the top two cards of their draw pile and put lost souls into LoB and the rest on the bottom. One of the players had the LS come up that stats "When you draw this card set aside a hero for two turns". Now my opinion is that he is not drawing this card so the ability dosent trigger. His opinion was how can the card come from his draw pile without being first drawn then placed into the LoB as the Reveal LS stats to do.

I tried to explain that the physical act of moving a card from the top of the draw pile is not by game definition "Drawing" a card.
He insists that the physical act of moving a card from the top of a draw pile is "Drawing" a card.

You are correct. Drawing a card can only be done at the beginning of your turn (the draw 3), or by an ability that explicitly says draw.

I'm not sure if anything has changed since I stopped paying attention to rulings, but last I knew, the search part of an ability and the location part of the ability were not separate abilities. You could look at your deck with a search ability no matter what, but if the searched card could not go in the specified location for any reason, then it would remain in deck, not go to hand. Has this changed, or am I just plain wrong?

I tried to explain that the physical act of moving a card from the top of the draw pile is not by game definition "Drawing" a card.
He insists that the physical act of moving a card from the top of a draw pile is "Drawing" a card.

Except the simple fact is that he's incorrect. Rulings like this (where there are disagreements) are part of the reason we have this ruling forum, so that more experienced players and Elders can answer questions for those who haven't played as long, are unsure about a ruling, or are simply clarifying if someone doesn't believe them. Regarding your other concern, about different terms meaning the same thing, there's not much we can do about that. The various definitions that were established early on in Redemption were never really given hard definitions up until the last couple years. A motto that ran rampant in this particular forum up until recently (when it stopped being a large problem) was, "disregard an errata disguised as a 'play-as'". Simply put, the Elders and people in charge of the REG do their best, but things do fall through the cracks, so your patience is required (as it's required from us all) while they continually make it better.

Quote from: browarod on January 09, 2012, 10:34:48 AM

"Look at", "search", and "reveal" are very much different abilities. "Take" is old wording for "search" from many sets ago before the wording was standardized. Newer sets pretty much use the updated wording and are less confusing in that regard.

If you have specific questions that still are confusing or unanswered, feel free to send me a PM and I'd be happy to explain anything to you, otherwise you can keep doing what you've been doing and post threads in Ruling Questions.

how does "Draw" fit into that grouping?

It doesn't. Draw is a separate ability from all of those.