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Author Topic: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)  (Read 1741 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

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Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« on: September 10, 2011, 12:46:27 AM »
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I know this has been asked plenty of times before, and the REG entry is still under construction, but how should we CURRENTLY rule the following:

Quote
Potiphar's Wife (Wo)

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: When character defeats a male Hero in the Field of Battle, the Hero is taken prisoner and placed in your opponent's Land of Bondage and treated as a Lost Soul. • Play As: If male Heroes are defeated by a win or stalemate by Potiphar's wife, capture and place them in opponent's land of bondage instead. • Identifiers: OT Female Human, Egypt • Verse: Genesis 39:9 • Availability: Women booster packs (Uncommon)

Under what scenarios does pot's wife work, and which scenarios does she NOT work.

1. A battle winner is played on PW (Obviously works)
2. CM or Unholy Writ defeats the hero.
3. PW plays Failed Objective or any other suicide battle winner.
4. PW is in a band of EC's, and someone ELSE plays a battle winner.
5. Hero retreats on its own.
6. PW plays Rizpah's Sackcloth or any other kill everything card.
7. If there are any other situations I forgot, add them.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 12:53:49 AM »
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Quote from: REG > Defeat
Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 12:55:46 AM »
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I ask because I've heard in the past that CM does not trigger pot's wife, due to the way it requires HER to defeat a hero.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 01:24:35 AM »
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That makes sense. Pot's Wife can't use CM so she's not doing the defeating.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 01:37:29 AM »
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failed objective?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 02:13:07 AM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on September 10, 2011, 01:37:29 AM
failed objective?

That's been ruled "no". Anyone interested in the logic is welcome to search up the discussion(s) on that.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 08:53:54 AM »
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Well your quote seems to say otherwise:

Quote
A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate.

This is why I made a specific list of scenarios.  :P Could we get a yes/no to each one?
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 09:24:13 AM »
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Pot's Wife has a "Play As" that states, "If male Heroes are defeated by a win or stalemate." Failed Objective discards Pot's Wife, but not the hero, so she is losing the battle.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 11:07:09 AM »
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It's not good enough to have an entry for "is defeated," we also need one for "defeats." Obviously playing PO would cause the Hero to not rescue a LS, which fits the entry for "is defeated," but PW did not "defeat" the Hero.

Also, that play-as is errata.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2011, 11:20:25 AM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 10, 2011, 11:07:09 AM
Also, that play-as is errata.

I do not believe that it is an errata. I think the "Play As" clarifies what "in the Field of Battle" meant. This is not a straight "defeats" ability, it is a conditional "defeats" ability.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2011, 11:23:17 AM »
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With no REG definition of "defeats," we have to assume it means "causes to be defeated." Part of the definition of "defeat" is failure to rescue a LS. Without the "play-as" (errata), PW would capture after playing FO.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2011, 11:30:58 AM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 10, 2011, 11:23:17 AM
With no REG definition of "defeats," we have to assume it means "causes to be defeated." Part of the definition of "defeat" is failure to rescue a LS. Without the "play-as" (errata), PW would capture after playing FO.

If this were true, then there would be no debate about conditional CBN, since the REG only defines CBN. Obviously there is strong belief that conditional CBN exists, therefore there would be reason to believe conditional "defeats" exists. This "play As" specifically addresses that existence by defining it. PW says "defeats in the Field of Battle." The "Play As" defines this as a defeat by win or stalemate (which is the logical conclusion of the wording).
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2011, 11:47:30 AM »
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That is not a valid comparison.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2011, 02:23:41 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 10, 2011, 11:47:30 AM
That is not a valid comparison.

...to you.....
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Pots Wife (for the 183237th time)
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 03:48:46 PM »
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I also ask because this entry is completely empty at the moment:

http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/Master/gloss_heroisdefeated.htm

Also, it seems we still have debate about this whole situation... so I'm not sure its all that clear cut yet.   :laugh:
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