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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Poisons
« on: July 03, 2009, 05:41:57 PM »
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It has been my understanding, (and I think everybody else's too) that a */3 character or less does not get discarded by cards such as Plague of Flies and Crown of Thorns.

My question is this: If I have a Hero protected from discard via Drawn out or Melchezidek's Blessing, and I play a poison/disease and target them do they get discarded when the hit */0? If not, do they continue to decrease in such a way that I could have a negative toughness hero?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 05:50:43 PM »
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Quote
It has been my understanding, (and I think everybody else's too) that a */3 character or less does not get discarded by cards such as Plague of Flies and Crown of Thorns.

Right, they are discarded by game rule.

So what you are asking is if "Protected from discard" also protects from discard by game rule?
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Offline sk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009, 05:57:58 PM »
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Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 03, 2009, 05:41:57 PM
If I have a Hero protected from discard via Drawn out or Melchezidek's Blessing, and I play a poison/disease and target them do they get discarded when the hit */0?

Drawn Out: "Protect that Hero from evil discard abilities."
M's Blessing: "Hero is protected from discard abilities..."

I'd say [yes] in both cases, as it's a decrease ability, not a discard ability.  HPP was ruled to work only because it doesn't include the "abilities" part.  edit: I thought the question was 'do these protect from discard'.  Fixed

Quote
If not, do they continue to decrease in such a way that I could have a negative toughness hero?
Characters cannot decrease below 0/0.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 06:03:54 PM by sk »
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 06:00:45 PM »
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Hey,

Increase/Decrease abilities (like Plague of Flies, Crown of Thorns, or the effect of many poison cards) do not discard characters when they reach */0 or less.  There is a game rule that says that a character is discarded when it is at */0 or less and that game rule discards the characters affected by Increase/Decrease abilities.

If a character is "protected from discard" it is protected from discard both by special abilities and by game rules.  If a character is "protected from discard abilities" it is protected from discard by special abilities but not by game rules.

Both of the cards you mentioned (Drawn Out and Melchizedek's Blessing) only protect from discard abilities so they would not keep a poisoned character alive after the character reaches */0 or less.  Pharaoh's Throne Room on the other hand protects from discard, so it would keep Egyptian Evil Characters affected by an increase/decrease ability alive past */0 (as long as they remain in the player's territory).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 06:02:47 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: sk on July 03, 2009, 05:57:58 PM
Characters cannot decrease below 0/0.

Characters can decrease below 0/0.  If you play Hunger against a Claudia/Michael band the heroes are -1/-1 and 6/2 for a combined force of 5/1.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline sk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 06:06:09 PM »
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Then Crown of Thorns makes a 1/1 character become 1/-2?  I was told otherwise.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 06:12:29 PM »
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Ok, Thats what I thought, I thought M's Blessing excluded the word abilities.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 06:42:04 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: sk on July 03, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Then Crown of Thorns makes a 1/1 character become 1/-2?  I was told otherwise.

The REG says,

Quote
Unless stated otherwise, characters that have abilities decreased below zero have negative abilities during the battle.

I assume this applies outside of battle as well and only includes the "during the battle" stipulation because it was written before it was possible for characters with negative toughness to survive outside of battle.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 06:58:58 PM »
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I thought characters in territory were discarded instantly upon hitting a defense of 0?  ???

Kirk
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Offline redemption99

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 07:00:13 PM »
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they do. Unless they are protect by some outside force(a fortress etc)
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 07:01:12 PM »
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Ok, I just somehow read into one of the above posts to mean there was some change...  ;)

Kirk
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Offline sk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 07:10:04 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:42:04 PM
Quote
Unless stated otherwise, characters that have abilities decreased below zero have negative abilities during the battle.

I assume this applies outside of battle as well and only includes the "during the battle" stipulation because it was written before it was possible for characters with negative toughness to survive outside of battle.

Oh, I took your first post to mean it also happened in territory.  Does/should it?  If I had a 1/1 Saduccee (via that set aside) with HPP up, he would stop at 1/0, correct?  Or would he go down to 1/-2 in territory?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2009, 07:25:58 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: sk on July 03, 2009, 07:10:04 PM
Oh, I took your first post to mean it also happened in territory.  Does/should it?  If I had a 1/1 Saduccee (via that set aside) with HPP up, he would stop at 1/0, correct?  Or would he go down to 1/-2 in territory?

He would go down to 1/-2.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 12:40:21 AM »
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That's cool! I'm gonna have to figure out a strategy where all my guys are like -5 -5... lol
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Offline sk

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009, 12:51:30 AM »
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Huh, that's what I get for bouncing new deck ideas off of a non-playtester... good to know.
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Ironica

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 03:43:11 PM »
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Quote from: redemption99 on July 03, 2009, 07:00:13 PM
they do. Unless they are protect by some outside force(a fortress etc)

Neuton's First Law Of Redemption :P
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Offline metalpsalm

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Re: Poisons
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2009, 05:09:50 AM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:02:47 PM
Hey,

Quote from: sk on July 03, 2009, 05:57:58 PM
Characters cannot decrease below 0/0.

Characters can decrease below 0/0.  If you play Hunger against a Claudia/Michael band the heroes are -1/-1 and 6/2 for a combined force of 5/1.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
depends if they are in battle or in territory
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