Author Topic: Playing two cards simultaneously (Read 1699 times)

Korunks · « **on:** April 29, 2010, 09:37:19 AM »

This will probably be a touchy subject so I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war. An example scenario: I make a rescue attempt with hero A (not specifically important), my opponent blocks from hand with Women as snares at the same time plays Christian Martyr from hand(literally they place both cards down at the same time, like you would a SoG NJ). This scenario raises a couple of questions for me:

1). Is this legal, or should the player be forced to play cards separately?
2). Is this necessary, in a race between AotL and CM doesn't defender have the first chance to response to his block?
3). If I am not using AotL can a CM be used to keep from playing the first enhancement if I have initiative resulting from the block? Because if I use a small number hero, this prevents me from playing any enhancement at all, is this a desired outcome?

I am not trying to criticize anyone who plays this way, I have played this way as well but I have been feeling lately that I need to see how this should be done. I don't like Dominant slap jack during battle are the rules regarding that a player gets to respond to their own action first set in stone? Or are they just something that some host's do?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2010, 09:49:07 AM »

1) You can't play cards simultaneously, but you can come pretty close. If CM hit the table a millisecond before Women as Snares, then technically your opponent should not be allowed to block. However, to avoid situations like this, it's better to just say, play one card before you take another from your hand.
2) Yes, the defender does have the first chance, but if a significant amount of time passes after he blocks with Women as snares and no initiative is confirmed, then you are free to play AotL. CM will still stop you, however...
3) If you say, "Is it my initiative?" your opponent can choose not to respond but to play CM before you get a chance to play an enhancement. Depending on what you have in your hand (banding, perhaps), this very well might be a good decision for your opponent.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2010, 10:51:39 AM »

Initiative always has to be confirmed, no matter what side you are on. I don't know what the point of playing CM simultaneously with the blocking EC would be, as the hero can't play an enhancement without an initiative check. And I'm also not sure why a race between AotL and CM is ever necessary, as you can always play one after the other has completed (most often takes the form of CM following AotL). The hero doesn't win as soon as all EC's are removed from battle, because there are several things that can still be done (adding a character through Madness, Unknown Nation, Site Guard LS, or Gates of Hell; or an action such as capturing with Writ or playing CM). So even if the attacker uses AotL first, CM would still stop the attack.

One of the cases where playing two dominants at the same time could conflict is in the Grapes of Wrath vs. AotL situation. I believe it has been ruled that if I block, I have the first chance to play Grapes on my own EC before my opponent can play AotL. What usually happens in this case is that Grapes closely follows the EC to the table to avoid conflict.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on April 29, 2010, 10:51:39 AM

... What usually happens in this case is that Grapes closely follows the EC to the table to avoid conflict.

But this is not simultaneous. It's just the rule of a player being able to respond to his own action first.

Kor · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2010, 09:10:26 PM »

If you are playing 2 cards from your hand, such as dominants and the like where initiative is not required, I think you can play them simultaneously if you choose to, as is the case with Son of God/New Jerusalem.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2010, 11:29:02 PM »

Quote from: Kor on April 30, 2010, 09:10:26 PM

If you are playing 2 cards from your hand, such as dominants and the like where initiative is not required, I think you can play them simultaneously if you choose to, as is the case with Son of God/New Jerusalem.

SoG and NJ are played simultaneously because NJ says to.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2010, 03:30:16 AM »

They can be played effectively simultaneously if not actually. There is so much hair-splitting in this thread

beenredeemed · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2010, 09:35:31 AM »

Please be patient with my question. I played Redemption ALOT from 2001 - 2004, but due to work/family circumstances I quit playing until now so I have not played a game in almost 6 years. My buddy and I are trying to pick it back up but it's been so long the rules are very hazy and with so many new cards out since we left the game it's kinda difficult to catch up. I do remember before we quit the problems we faced with "dominant slapjack" and I want to clarify to make sure I understand.

If opponent presents an 8/6 hero and I am going to block with a 2/2 ec, I know that I am going to have initiative. Why can't I bring my EC and Grapes of Wrath to the table one after the other in an almost simultaneous fashion to get it in before opponent AOTL's me? Do I have to lay the EC down and then go back to my hand and wait for opponent to CONFIRM that I have initiative (giving him ample opportunity to play AOTL) before I can play my enhancement?

Thanks for the help! Sorry it's such a newbie question!

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2010, 10:05:19 AM »

Quote from: beenredeemed on May 01, 2010, 09:35:31 AM

If opponent presents an 8/6 hero and I am going to block with a 2/2 ec, I know that I am going to have initiative. Why can't I bring my EC and Grapes of Wrath to the table one after the other in an almost simultaneous fashion to get it in before opponent AOTL's me?

You essentially can, as long as there are no abilities that have to complete first (triggered abilities from you blocking, etc.)

Quote

Do I have to lay the EC down and then go back to my hand and wait for opponent to CONFIRM that I have initiative (giving him ample opportunity to play AOTL) before I can play my enhancement?

Yes. Whether you are the attacker or the defender, you need to ask for initiative when you would have it to play an enhancement.

beenredeemed · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2010, 10:13:15 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 01, 2010, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: beenredeemed on May 01, 2010, 09:35:31 AM
If opponent presents an 8/6 hero and I am going to block with a 2/2 ec, I know that I am going to have initiative. Why can't I bring my EC and Grapes of Wrath to the table one after the other in an almost simultaneous fashion to get it in before opponent AOTL's me?

You essentially can, as long as there are no abilities that have to complete first (triggered abilities from you blocking, etc.)

Quote
Do I have to lay the EC down and then go back to my hand and wait for opponent to CONFIRM that I have initiative (giving him ample opportunity to play AOTL) before I can play my enhancement?

Yes. Whether you are the attacker or the defender, you need to ask for initiative when you would have it to play an enhancement.

Forgive me, but this seems contradictory. When I said one after another almost simultaneously, I meant bring them forth with one hand at the same time, placing one on the table and then with the same hand at virtually the same time placing the other, not waiting to ask for initiative (the first answer you said yes to as long as there are no abilities to be completed), not going back to your cards and grabbing the other quickly and asking permission to play (the 2nd answer you said you had to do).

Sorry, Im more confused now...lol

beenredeemed · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2010, 10:17:02 AM »

wait I think I got it...Grapes is a dominant, I was thinking of it like an enhancement. You're saying I can simul-play my dominant, but I must wait for permission on my enhancement, correct?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2010, 10:26:46 AM »

Quote from: beenredeemed on May 01, 2010, 10:17:02 AM

wait I think I got it...Grapes is a dominant, I was thinking of it like an enhancement. You're saying I can simul-play my dominant, but I must wait for permission on my enhancement, correct?

You are correct, for the most part. The other part of what the Professor is referring to would be triggered cards like Throne of David (see below). Throne of David would activate before you could play your Grapes. Basically, you can go ahead and throw your Grapes on the table with your EC, but any special ability that is triggered must first be resolved before Grapes' special ability can activate. By then, Grapes may have no effect (i.e. opponent uses the enhancement from Throne of David to remove all evil characters from battle).

The Throne of David
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When your purple brigade King is blocked, if no Evil Character in battle has a weapon, you may draw X cards and play an O.T. purple brigade Enhancement. • Attributes: X = the number of evil brigades your opponent has in play • Identifiers: X = the number of evil brigades your opponent has in play • Verse: I Kings 2:45 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 15)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2010, 11:32:38 AM »

The Prof and the Teacher are correct.

Remember Enhancements NEED init. Doms do NOT

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Author Topic: Playing two cards simultaneously (Read 1699 times)

Korunks

Playing two cards simultaneously

BubbleBoy

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

Professoralstad

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

BubbleBoy

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

Kor

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

Lamborghini_diablo

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

Minister Polarius

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

beenredeemed

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

Professoralstad

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

beenredeemed

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

beenredeemed

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

YourMathTeacher

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

Re: Playing two cards simultaneously