Author Topic: Play next followed by negate all? (Read 2838 times)

Sean · « **on:** November 09, 2009, 03:36:18 PM »

I have an Evil Character with a play next evil weapon class enhancement (____ Horses) on them.
I block with that Evil Character and play an enhancement that negates all special abilities on characters and enhancements (Mask of Fear, Foolish Advise, Shimei's Malicious Curse).
What happens?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2009, 03:37:28 PM »

Um... You put the two cards you drew back (Unless one of them was the negate) and then its FBTN from then on out.

Sean · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:03:35 PM »

So the negate stays if it was in my hand already and leaves if it was drawn?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:05:12 PM »

No, I've heard and understood that the Negate stays no matter where it came from. The ability to play an enhancement can't be interupted.

Sean · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:09:35 PM »

Hmm, this seems contrary to what I remember playing this situation as in the past. Can somebody confirm this? I seem to remember that one of the advantages of an Elders T2 deck was that you could play Words and then Blessings that was drawn which would send Blessings back on top. I'm trying to brush up on my Redemption knowledge since I'm playing in ROOT now. It seems I've forgotten a lot of stuff.

SirNobody · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:12:29 PM »

Hey,

I believe if you drew the FBTN enhancement that you play to negate the draw, the FBTN enhancement goes back on top of your draw pile.

Only can't be negated abilities "stick to the table" and a FBTN enhancement can be negated (it just doesn't negate itself).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:14:36 PM »

Well if thats the case I'm going to go re-build some decks. Gabe, Kevin and I had a large discussion about this at Natz this year, if one of those guys could chime in, I'm pretty sure we concluded it wouldn't go back.

The logic being that it it goes back, then you didn't play it, so then its not fbtn, so then you draw it, so then you play it, but then it goes back etc. etc. It creates a loop.

SirNobody · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:36:40 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 09, 2009, 04:14:36 PM

The logic being that it it goes back, then you didn't play it, so then its not fbtn, so then you draw it, so then you play it, but then it goes back etc. etc. It creates a loop.

Redemption people are far too loop happy. This doesn't create a loop. Putting the card back in the draw pile doesn't mean it's not fbtn anymore, because fbtn cannot (directly or indirectly) negate itself. It's similar to Armorbearer banded to Benaiah, Benaiah goes away, but the fbtn stays.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:41:46 PM »

Right, but haven't we ruled that if ET plays AoCP, then gets blocked from hand by KoT AoCP stays on the table because the ability to play a card can't be negated?

Sean · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2009, 04:56:50 PM »

I thought AoC stayed because it itself cannot be negated, not because you can't negate the ability to play an Enhancement.

If you can't negate the ability to play an Enhancement, how does Darius' Decree work?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2009, 05:02:52 PM »

Quote

I thought AoC stayed because it itself cannot be negated, not because you can't negate the ability to play an Enhancement.

So? negates don't negate themselves, yet they're being unplayed.
Sorry, not negate, interupt.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2009, 05:07:46 PM »

You can obviously prevent a play ability, but I think it would make the game a lot simpler if we just said that cards can't be un-played. Abilities can send them back to where they started from, but negating a card that allowed you to play something should not, especially if the ability is still in effect. That breaks the game.

Gabe · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2009, 08:18:38 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 09, 2009, 04:14:36 PM

Well if thats the case I'm going to go re-build some decks. Gabe, Kevin and I had a large discussion about this at Natz this year...

I don't seem to remember that conversation but that's not saying much. There was a lot of rambling and incoherent nonsense that went on with far to little sleep. That's part of what made it so much fun!

STAMP · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2009, 09:15:53 PM »

{Begins to open mouth...but then goes back to ponder using a 16 treble hook or a snelled hook with grub...}

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2009, 09:26:13 PM »

I'm not sure what the conditions are like up in your parts STAMP, but I'm partial to the Snelled myself.

SirNobody · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:24:27 PM »

Hey,

Play next abilities can be prevented, they just can't be interrupted.

Cards are never "unplayed." In the original example Foolish Advice is played and then returned to the draw pile where it came from. Returning it to the draw pile does not mean it is "unplayed." You NEVER unplay cards.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:27:24 PM »

In that case any time I'm blocked KoT from hand after AoCP, I'm playing AoC again.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 09, 2009, 10:27:24 PM

In that case any time I'm blocked KoT from hand after AoCP, I'm playing AoC again.

AoC would have to come from the draw pile. The only reason FA goes back is because the DRAW ability that put it in the players hand to play it got negated... not the play next ability.

Sean · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2009, 10:43:59 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 09, 2009, 10:27:24 PM

In that case any time I'm blocked KoT from hand after AoCP, I'm playing AoC again.

CBN cards always stick to the table.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2009, 11:19:42 PM »

Quote

AoC would have to come from the draw pile. The only reason FA goes back is because the DRAW ability that put it in the players hand to play it got negated... not the play next ability.

Fine, I play reach and draw it.

Quote

CBN cards always stick to the table.
Quote
The negate card wasn't negated so it should stick too.

Sean · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2009, 11:50:29 PM »

Quote

CBN cards always stick to the table.
Quote
The negate card wasn't negated so it should stick too.

I don't think you're going to win that battle, but you're welcome to fight it.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2009, 11:54:16 PM »

I don't think I'm going to win either, but I'm suprised more people aren't on my side, This is how I've understood it since I started the game way back in 1998.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2009, 07:08:48 AM »

No one else seems to find this game-breaking.

I don't think we should say something confusing like card playing abilities are CBI, but I think we should say that cards cannot be un-played, meaning the negation of a drawing/card-playing ability would not send that card back to where it came from. Only cards that specifically target those kinds of cards to be sent somewhere else should be able to do so.

News:

Author Topic: Play next followed by negate all? (Read 2838 times)

Lamborghini_diablo