Author Topic: Placed Good Enhancement and Choose the Blocker (Read 5519 times)

Sean · « **on:** November 13, 2009, 06:40:30 PM »

If I have placed a good Enhancement on a Hero such as Ehud or Asahel with Agur or Jahaziel, would the Enhancement be used prior to choosing the blocker or after?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:42:16 PM »

Before. Choose the blocker is always last. I know, I wish I could place CBN battle winners on CTB people and use it on the character you choose to block.

SirNobody · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:45:16 PM »

Hey,

The enhancement takes effect after the choose the blocker ability. The choose the blocker ability is activated, the effect of the enhancement is a triggered effect. Activation always trumps triggers.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Gabe · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:47:02 PM »

with Nobody

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:55:57 PM »

ok, I remember this question being asked before and the answer was that CTB is always last. Did something change, or has it always been that a placed ehn would activate after the CTB ability?

Am I just making this thing up about CTB being last?

Sean · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:05:53 PM »

Quote

Am I just making this thing up about CTB being last?

Abilities on Heroes is that way.

Follow up question: How does an Enhancement placed on Spy work if I choose to withdraw?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:39:53 PM »

Heh, Was waiting for that - Some say yes, some say no, Tim, Bryon, and I are part of the yes camp.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:45:04 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 13, 2009, 07:39:53 PM

Heh, Was waiting for that - Some say yes, some say no, Tim, Bryon, and I are part of the yes camp.

I would say they work but the hero wouldn't be in battle. So it would be like a territory enhancement or something like that. That is mho though

Sean · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:45:45 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 13, 2009, 07:39:53 PM

Heh, Was waiting for that - Some say yes, some say no, Tim, Bryon, and I are part of the yes camp.

What question are you answering?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:46:40 PM »

Yours about spy.

Sean · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:48:31 PM »

OK, I have no idea what your trying to say. My question was a "how" question. "Yes" or "no" doesn't really help me.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:50:52 PM »

Or sorry, I read that and saw just does not how... sorry.

It triggers to activate, then when it actually has the chance to activate it has no hero to activate on, so it fizzles. not sure if it would still discard itself though.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:01:31 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on November 13, 2009, 07:50:52 PM

Or sorry, I read that and saw just does not how... sorry.

It triggers to activate, then when it actually has the chance to activate it has no hero to activate on, so it fizzles. not sure if it would still discard itself though.

I think it would. Where else would it go? Enhancements in battle without characters are discarded (2 heroes & ehns vs CM)

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:08:58 PM »

Yes - but because it was 'placed' and not played does it stay since it never actually activated?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:18:26 PM »

I would think a placed enhancement on spy would do one of two things

(A) try to activate, but not be able to, and just get a ride back to the players territory with Spy.
(B) Activate and discard itself before he withdraws.

However, hero abilities come first unless its banding or CTB, so I'm leaning more towards A.

SirNobody · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2009, 11:49:36 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Sean on November 13, 2009, 07:05:53 PM

Follow up question: How does an Enhancement placed on Spy work if I choose to withdraw?

The condition for that type of placed enhancement to activate is the hero entering battle, not being in battle. So Spy enters battle, triggering the enhancement to activate, but Spy's ability must complete first, and he withdraws. The enhancement follows Spy back to the territory (it's still placed so it still follows the card it's placed on) then when Spy's withdraw ability finishes the placed enhancement takes effect (while spy is now in the territory, but still during the battle phase) and is discarded.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2009, 12:51:34 PM »

By that logic doesn't Spy + Warrior's Spear (or a converted Sword) work when Spy withdraws also? We've been told since Priests came out that those combos don't work...

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2009, 12:53:48 PM »

I may be wrong here, but that is different. Warrior's Spear is a weapon-class ehn while a placed enhancement is triggered by simply entering battle.

SirNobody · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2009, 08:32:48 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: BrianGabe on November 14, 2009, 12:51:34 PM

By that logic doesn't Spy + Warrior's Spear (or a converted Sword) work when Spy withdraws also? We've been told since Priests came out that those combos don't work...

I have always believed that Spy + Warrior's Spear works. A couple weeks ago, Bryon posted on the private side of the message board saying that he also believes that Spy + Warrior's Spear works. So I'm not sure who told you that it doesn't work (apparently those threads where when I wasn't active on the message board) but I'm guessing they were wrong.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2009, 11:37:14 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on November 14, 2009, 08:32:48 PM

I have always believed that Spy + Warrior's Spear works. A couple weeks ago, Bryon posted on the private side of the message board saying that he also believes that Spy + Warrior's Spear works. So I'm not sure who told you that it doesn't work (apparently those threads where when I wasn't active on the message board) but I'm guessing they were wrong.

Hmmmmm... My recollection is that the ruling was handed down by someone pretty official (i.e., it wasn't a consensus of the non-PTB ruling). I thought for sure it was Bryon, but maybe it was Stephen or Mr. B.

So, is what you wrote above an official reversal of the earlier ruling, or is that still up for further discussion?

On a related note--say I have Hidden Treasures active and I make an RA using a gathered green Prophet banded to Spy. Spy does his little Spear thing (or not), and then withdraws from battle. Can I now use HT's SA to play a green enhancement before the blocker is presented?

Thanx in advance for your responses.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2009, 12:25:03 PM »

im glad to see things like this just floating around, waiting to be discussed, changing, and inconsistent (sarcasm)- not good for the game people...but it keeps minds like mine occupied

STAMP · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:08:02 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on November 14, 2009, 11:49:36 AM

The enhancement follows Spy back to the territory (it's still placed so it still follows the card it's placed on) then when Spy's withdraw ability finishes the placed enhancement takes effect (while spy is now in the territory, but still during the battle phase) and is discarded.

Uh, when did this become possible? Seriously. The only enhancements that can activate in territory are laid out in the REG and rulebook. Warrior's Spear does not fall into that category.

My take is that the trigger is met, it TRIES to activate but can't due to rules. Because it cannot activate it does NOT get discarded.

SirNobody · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:26:22 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on November 14, 2009, 11:37:14 PM

On a related note--say I have Hidden Treasures active and I make an RA using a gathered green Prophet banded to Spy. Spy does his little Spear thing (or not), and then withdraws from battle. Can I now use HT's SA to play a green enhancement before the blocker is presented?

I believe the answer is yes. Just like we treat it on Prince of this World, the word "lone" is a dynamic condition, when Spy withdraws the green prophet is then lone again. And "begins a battle" is the same as "at the beginning of battle" which gets checked after character abilities have completed, at which time the "lone" condition evaluates to true.

Quote from: STAMP on November 17, 2009, 01:08:02 PM

Uh, when did this become possible?

I guess technically it became possible in Kings when Spy came out (although the insignificance of Red Weapon Class enhancements at the time lead to no one caring or noticing). It became well known in Priests when Altar of Burnt Offering came out.

Quote

The only enhancements that can activate in territory are laid out in the REG and rulebook. Warrior's Spear does not fall into that category.

Technically Warriors Spear activates (goes from dormant to active) in battle, it just ends up in the territory before it gets carried out.

Quote

My take is that the trigger is met, it TRIES to activate but can't due to rules.

There is no rule that says normal enhancements can't take effect on a character in a territory.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

TimMierz · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:50:12 PM »

Here are some threads from The Past:

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17259.msg271162#msg271162 - A koala asks, "Doesn't that mean Spy + [converted] Sword works?" Mike B suggests that it should work, but after being told that it's been ruled otherwise, he says, "That is easily possible. I've missed a good portion of the last year." A few more responses confirm that it does not work, and the thread ends.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=13134.0 - You say that Warrior's Spear works in a placed situation, using the same logic, but others disagree with you, showing a now-dead thread contradicting it. Only you have the viewpoint that an enhancement can activate in that way. In fact, RR has some evil plans ready in that scenario.

Sean · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2009, 07:00:48 PM »

Could we get some back up for Tim by some other PTB?

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Author Topic: Placed Good Enhancement and Choose the Blocker (Read 5519 times)

Lamborghini_diablo