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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: The Guardian on October 08, 2009, 02:35:24 PM

Title: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: The Guardian on October 08, 2009, 02:35:24 PM
Can someone remind me (or point me to the thread) of the rules for what happens to cards placed on a Hero when that Hero is captured? I know weapons don't stay on captured Heroes, but I couldn't remember about other placed cards.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: lightningninja on October 08, 2009, 02:40:28 PM
They go away, because it says "place on a hero," so as soon as the character isn't a hero, the placed card is gone.

At least that's how I thought it got ruled. :)
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: The Guardian on October 08, 2009, 03:08:42 PM
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17053.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17053.0)

Here's a thread...and the question went unanswered...  :P
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: sk on October 08, 2009, 03:23:28 PM
I don't see a clear answer in the REG, but here is a quote to consider:

Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > How to Play (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/howtoplay13.htm)
"Placed cards must be activated according to game rules.  Cards placed remain where they are placed until targeted by a special ability (directly or indirectly) or by a game rule.  Placed cards can be directly targeted by other cards (e.g., Boasting of Wisdom) or indirectly when the underlying card is targeted.  When the underlying card is targeted, the placed cards go with the underlying card."

The REG makes it clear that discarding the weapon is specific to weapon class enhancements, but never clarifies if this is an exception to something or just a clarification of an unwritten game rule.  The above quote makes it seem that the place card would follow the character, but I'm not sure if it would be discarded by game rule or not once in the Land of Bondage.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: browarod on October 08, 2009, 08:37:57 PM
They go away, because it says "place on a hero," so as soon as the character isn't a hero, the placed card is gone.
What about when the Hero is still a Hero after being captured (such as with Raiders' Camp and Demonic Stronghold)?
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: SirNobody on October 08, 2009, 09:29:54 PM
Hey,

I see no reason why the placed card wouldn't follow the hero when the hero is captured.  The card must be placed on a hero but that is a condition for placing it there not for keeping it there.

What about when the Hero is still a Hero after being captured (such as with Raiders' Camp and Demonic Stronghold)?

That never happens.  When a hero is captured it always ceases to be a hero.  In the case of Raiders' Camp and Demonic Stronghold it is a captured hero, which is different from a normal hero.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Arch Angel on October 08, 2009, 11:42:35 PM
So wait, if you capture a hero with a card placed on it and then redeem it would the placed card go to the LoR?
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Bryon on October 08, 2009, 11:59:52 PM
Thanks for the REG quote, Scott.  And I agree with Tim.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Professoralstad on October 09, 2009, 12:36:52 PM
So wait, if you capture a hero with a card placed on it and then redeem it would the placed card go to the LoR?

That's an interesting question. And if so, are the placed cards abilities still active? Because rescuing a captured hero with Destructive Sin would be a good way to never allow your opponent's good fortresses to work.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on October 09, 2009, 02:47:08 PM
LOL! Oh man, if that was allowed, that'd just be wrong.  :D
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Arch Angel on October 09, 2009, 03:29:54 PM
Well as far as I've been told DS doesn't work in set aside, so it wouldn't do anything while in the LoR except prevent itself from being recurred.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Professoralstad on October 09, 2009, 04:04:01 PM
Well as far as I've been told DS doesn't work in set aside, so it wouldn't do anything while in the LoR except prevent itself from being recurred.

While that might make sense, I don't know of a rule that says it doesn't, and I've had it played where it works for as long as it is on the card it was placed on, whether the Hero was captured, set-aside, etc.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: lightningninja on October 09, 2009, 05:13:17 PM
It was ruled at nationals that Magic Charms did not still work when the magician was set aside with two possessed by demons. I'm not sure if placed cards follow that logic.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: SirNobody on October 09, 2009, 06:06:41 PM
Hey,

Magic Charms cannot be activated on a magician that is already set aside, but if it is already active on a magician when the magician is set aside it remains active on the magician and can still be used until that player's next preparation phase.

I am not aware of any requirement that a placed card must be in play to continue having it's effect.  If the "host" of a placed card is removed from play the placed card would follow and I believe it would continue to have it's effect.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: BubbleBoy on October 09, 2009, 06:11:48 PM
If there really isn't any sort of rule on this (which I thought there was), then I think the conditions should be clarified, since having cards other than redeemed souls (and GoYS I suppose) in the LoB doesn't seem right.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: thestrongangel on October 10, 2009, 12:56:54 AM
As a general rule, a card can only have effect if it is in play and on a card of the appropriate type.

You have to consider what happens to a card.  A magician set aside is still a magician, and therefore a valid character to be able to hold Magic Charms, as it is still an evil character, and retains its type of magician.  However, since it is not in the Field of Play, an artifact on the character would have no effect, as it is not in play.

The REG is fairly clear on what happens to placed cards though:

Quote
Place

When a special ability instructs a player to place a card on a second card, the placed card remains with the second card until the second card is discarded, returned to the draw pile or hand, or until the placed card is removed by a special ability.

So, unless the hero is discarded, returned to draw pile or hand, or the card is removed by an ability, the placed card stays.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: SirNobody on October 10, 2009, 02:04:12 AM
Hey,

As a general rule, a card can only have effect if it is in play and on a card of the appropriate type.

I don't know where you are getting that from.  I do not believe that that statement is true.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Smokey on October 10, 2009, 07:58:30 AM
Hey,

As a general rule, a card can only have effect if it is in play and on a card of the appropriate type.

I don't know where you are getting that from.  I do not believe that that statement is true.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Maybe he's confusing this with all cards SA's defaulting to in play unless they specifically target otherwise.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: lightningninja on October 10, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
When a special ability instructs a player to place a card on a second card, the placed card remains with the second card until the second card is discarded, returned to the draw pile or hand, or until the placed card is removed by a special ability.
[/quote]If that is in the REG then that's pretty clear. But what about cards that are "activated," not "placed?"
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Korunks on July 20, 2012, 10:33:47 PM
I know I am necroposting , but chances are we will have this question multiple times in PA states tomorrow.  After reading the thread the following questions seem to be unanswered.

1.  If my magician is set aside and still has Charms on them, can it be used?

2.  If the magician is still set aside Can I reactivate charms on him?

3. Do Placed Cards remain when the captured hero is redeemed?

4. Does Destructive Sin continue to work in set aside?
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Drrek on July 21, 2012, 12:48:45 AM


3. Do Placed Cards remain when the captured hero is redeemed?


pretty sure the most current ruling is that placed cards are discarded when a character is captured
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Korunks on July 21, 2012, 04:59:53 AM


3. Do Placed Cards remain when the captured hero is redeemed?


pretty sure the most current ruling is that placed cards are discarded when a character is captured


Source please?
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Drrek on July 21, 2012, 05:55:39 AM


3. Do Placed Cards remain when the captured hero is redeemed?


pretty sure the most current ruling is that placed cards are discarded when a character is captured


Source please?

I believe they do, but I'm not sure why...
Actually I have to disagree with you unless they've recently changed this. Captured characters keep their counters until rescued, discarded, or removed, however captured characters do lose weapon-class enhancements.

Captured characters with any placed cards have them discarded when captured by the new game rule, weapons or no.

The Koala and the Great Da(y)ne are correct.

Not the most direct source, but it is still an elder confirming an assertion that placed cards are discarded.  I know there is another thread where this was ruled, but I haven't found this yet.
Title: Re: Placed cards on captured Heroes
Post by: Redoubter on July 21, 2012, 06:22:01 AM
1.  If my magician is set aside and still has Charms on them, can it be used?
Yes, as long as it was active when he was set-aside.  However, I believe that once Artifact Activation comes around, it deactivates and returns to pile, as it must activate each turn on your magician.  See #2 for that.

2.  If the magician is still set aside Can I reactivate charms on him?
No, the identifier for Magic Charms says it may be activated on your magician.  That defaults to play.

3. Do Placed Cards remain when the captured hero is redeemed?
No, new ruling.  Direct confirmation that what I was quoted as saying is correct. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/official-new-rulings-announcement-thread/msg480027/#msg480027)

4. Does Destructive Sin continue to work in set aside?
Yes, as far as I can tell.  There is nothing that indicates it must remain in play.
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