Author Topic: Philistine Hormah (Read 11331 times)

Minister Polarius · « **on:** August 24, 2009, 03:53:37 PM »

Philistine Outpost protects all Sites from being placed under decks. Hormah says to "Place this Site and its contents under deck." Since Philistine Outpost does not protect contents of Sites from being placed under deck, do I get to place the Lost Soul without losing Hormah?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:01:43 PM »

I don't see why not. Nice find!

STAMP · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:06:58 PM »

Philistine Outpost
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When you are attacked, you may discard this card or an evil card from deck to search discard pile for a generic Philistine and place it in your territory. Protect Sites from being placed beneath decks. • Identifiers: None • Verse: I Samuel 14:12

Hormah
Type: Site • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If your human Evil Character is discarded, you may place this Site and its contents beneath owner’s deck. • Identifiers: Canaan • Verse: Judges 1:17

It is a triggered rather than a cost/benefit SA so, yes, you may place the lost soul beneath your deck as the "may" allows you to do one or the other or both.

Of course, that means you never have to discard Hormah.

Think about it. If that is how the "may" is interpreted for 2K Horses, then it works for Hormah.

Two Thousand Horses
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Holder may interrupt the battle, draw 2 cards from the top of own draw pile, and play the next enhancement. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: II Kings 18:23

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:08:09 PM »

I think this ability qualifies for the "do as much as you can" program. ...Sick. Do you know what that means? In T2, you could have three (I think...) Hormahs in play with lost souls in them with Philly Outpost active, use PO to discard a Philly in your deck and then fish it out to play, and then put all the lost souls from the Hormahs on the bottom of your deck and keep recycling over and over. ...Dude...

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:09:24 PM »

Actually, you could have 5 Hormahs.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:13:46 PM »

And no cost...awesome...

Professoralstad · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:22:33 PM »

Justin told me last week that he brought it up with the playtesters. He and I both believe that one of the two cards should/will be errata'd. It seems a bit overpowered to be able to put one (or two) LS's below draw pile every time you are attacked.

The Guardian · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:42:17 PM »

There will be an errata somewhere; the playtest group is deciding between these two options:

Philistine Outpost
"When you are attacked, you may discard this card or an evil card from deck to search discard pile for a generic Philistine and place it in your territory. Protect Sites and their contents from being placed beneath decks."

Hormah
"If your human Evil Character is discarded you may place this Site beneath owner's deck to place its contents beneath owner's deck."

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:44:34 PM »

I'd go with the errata on Hormah. My logic is that Hormah lends itself to being a cost/benefit card, while errata on PO looks more like a hot fix. In other words, the Hormah errata makes sense in a vacuum, the PO one does not.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:45:25 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 24, 2009, 04:22:33 PM

Justin told me last week that he brought it up with the playtesters. He and I both believe that one of the two cards should/will be errata'd. It seems a bit overpowered to be able to put one (or two) LS's below draw pile every time you are attacked.

Well your human EC still has to die. There is still a cost and once you run out of human EC's you can no longer do the trick...but still it is overpowered (yet cool) and will prob be errata'd.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:24:11 PM »

I agree. If either are errated, Hormah should be.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:28:05 PM »

It would also just be a shame to eratta a card that just came out.

The Schaef · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:29:06 PM »

Rob agrees with that last sentiment, FWIW

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:29:36 PM »

I'm shocked no one has abused this in playtesting. It was definately the first thing I thought of when I was making my Philly Steak deck.

STAMP · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:04:34 PM »

I'm sorry but giving errata to Hormah is not the answer. It creates inconsistency where we already have consistency.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:07:10 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on August 24, 2009, 06:04:34 PM

I'm sorry but giving errata to Hormah is not the answer. It creates inconsistency where we already have consistency. I believe the new card should get the errata.

You're going to have to explain that post, because it made no sense to me.

STAMP · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:10:37 PM »

We all know that in an SA that contains more than one ability following a "may" the player may do zero, one or more, or all of the abilities as the "may" applies to all of them.

redemption99 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:14:50 PM »

That would mean that Hormah needs the errata anyway because then you wouldn't have to place the site beneath but just place the lost souls beneath. (IE: may place site beneath, may place LS beneath)

STAMP · « **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:27:14 PM »

I fixed my other post. Errata is not needed for any card. This combo is NOT broken. There are plenty of counters at this point.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:32:07 PM »

that and one human EC has to die every time.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:35:17 PM »

Except that Philistine Outpost will let you D/C a Philistine from your deck and then put it in play, satisfying Hormah's ability with no real cost at all. I would be all for leaving both cards alone, but it seems that the PTB have already decided it's broken.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:35:36 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 24, 2009, 06:32:07 PM

that and one human EC has to die every time.

yeah thats what I said but everyone passed over it. Still its broken because that would be a powerful defense with hormah and 15 human EC's...though I guess you need to draw Hormah. I don't know I think they just need to experiment with using Hormah with Philistine Outpost and see if it is broken or not.

STAMP · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:36:28 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 24, 2009, 06:35:17 PM

... but it seems that the PTB have already decided it's broken.

That is unfortunate. $:-\$

jtay · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:53:45 PM »

I also think that Hormah and not Philistine Outpost should be errata'd. My reason is that the errata on Philistine Outpost would prevent the many abilities that place lost souls (and not sites) beneath the deck: the withdraw, demon discard, and anti-angel lost souls come to mind. I don't see any such repercussions from making an errata on Hormah.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2009, 07:14:01 PM »

IMO Hormah's ability is way to broad. This would be better, "if your human evil character is discarded by an opponent....."

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Author Topic: Philistine Hormah (Read 11331 times)

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

TheHobbit13