Author Topic: Pharisees and Sadducees 101 (Read 7800 times)

Korunks · « **on:** April 08, 2010, 10:44:16 AM »

Does the High Priests Palace + Crown of Thorns + the 1/3 Pharisees and Sadducees still work? With all the game rule "changes"(clarifications, whatever) lately I am not sure what is a legal combo any more and what isn't.

Red · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:46:14 AM »

i think that works i ain't see anything that says it does't(i'v been awile and it worked when i got here) (what's with all the 101 posts?)

Korunks · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:50:10 AM »

IDK the 101 idea seemed like fun, yeah but when I got here several things worked that now don't. So I have to ask before I even think of anything, to make sure its legal.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:00:55 AM »

Yes, it works. "Protected from discard" (the wording on HPP) means protected from discard by SA or by game rule. "Protected from discard special abilities" would not protect against Crown of Thorns, since it is not the SA of Crown that is doing the discarding, it is the game rule of EC's being discarded after reaching */0 or less doing it. But, again, HPP says from discard, so you can have 1/0 Pharisees and Sadducees chilling in your territory ready to block even the best Zebulun attack.

Korunks · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:06:53 AM »

Good I like that Idea

Now lets say I play an enhancement that gives them defensive numbers and they win the battle, are they discarded?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:12:00 AM »

Yes. During battle resolution, all enhancements played are discarded (except placed/wc of course) and all characters at less than zero toughness are discarded; the rest return to territory. So unless you play a card that says they gain toughness until end of turn, they will be discarded.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »

Quote from: Reg > Ongoing Abilities > Protect > How to Play

Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities ...

I thought it was ruled because of this passage that protect abilities cannot protect from game rule, and thus since Crown of Thorns itself does not do any discarding, HPP could not protect from it...at least, that's what I thought...

Korunks · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:23:34 PM »

This is why I wanted the ruling confirmed, sooner rather than latter states is only a month away here in the NE.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:26:50 PM »

Hmm...I've never seen that before. Interesting point.

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:31:32 PM »

I don't know if an official decision was ever made regarding High Priests Palace.

There was a long discussion about Protection of Angels (Priests) and whether or not it protected from numbers or just special abilities. I think that the end result of that discussion is that you cannot protect from numbers.

It seems that for consistency sake HPP would not protect from Crown of Thorns causing discard by game rule but I don't know that for certain.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:32:11 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on April 08, 2010, 01:23:34 PM

This is why I wanted the ruling confirmed, sooner rather than latter states is only a month away here in the NE.

Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:38:32 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on April 08, 2010, 01:31:32 PM

It seems that for consistency sake HPP would not protect from Crown of Thorns causing discard by game rule but I don't know that for certain.

Although one could make that argument from consistency (and apparently Gabe has), my understanding is that HPP still protects from in territory discard for any reason. At least that is the consensus that seemed to emerge from the original PoA/discard by the numbers discussion.

At my advanced age it is possible, however, that I was unable to hear a change made to this rule subsequent to that.

Red · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2010, 01:39:20 PM »

korunks quick delete this so it still works!

Korunks · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:00:59 PM »

Quote

Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there.

Well unless you're gonna be in MD around June 19 we are still stuck with dumb judges like me.

Quote

korunks quick delete this so it still works!

I am under the impression that it currently works. I am hoping if I cause enough noise the PTB will maybe make a few decisions on certain rules. I know they're busy but I haven't had any confirmation on rulings in the past few days. Squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:11:40 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on April 08, 2010, 02:00:59 PM

Quote
Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there.
Well unless you're gonna be in MD around June 19 we are still stuck with dumb judges like me.

You know, I actually might be, no joke. My great aunt lives in Chesapeake Bay, and my little brother is going there sometime this summer on a trip to see DC and stuff, and I might be going with him since my grandma might not be able to this year, as she has with all the other kids in our family. I'm just not sure when it is...

But even if I can make it there, which is a looooong shot, I doubt you would seriously want me to judge.

Gabe · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:21:20 PM »

For the record I'm not saying it doesn't work. In fact I would prefer that it does. I also thought that PoA s&could protect from numbers so obviously I'm not. always right.

Korunks · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:27:34 PM »

Quote

I doubt you would seriously want me to judge. Roll Eyes

On the contrary I wouldn't mind in the least. If you actually made it though I wouldn't ask you to judge, you didn't travel all that way to watch others play. Also I usually rule by consensus, If I hit a snag where I am unsure if I am wrong I ask the other playgroup leaders(and elite players) for their input and usually we reach a agreement.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2010, 04:57:52 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on April 08, 2010, 02:21:20 PM

obviously I'm not. always right.

That's true. Sometimes you are right in non-obvious ways.

Gabe · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2010, 06:52:16 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 08, 2010, 04:57:52 PM

Quote from: BrianGabe on April 08, 2010, 02:21:20 PM
obviously I'm not. always right.
That's true. Sometimes you are right in non-obvious ways.

This is what happens when someone with fat thumbs and bad eyesight tries to type on a little phone with a small screen.

Korunks · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2010, 09:49:10 AM »

So any word on official ruling or are we stuck ruling this as it always has been?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2010, 10:25:57 AM »

I think the REG quote is pretty conclusive, but I guess I would like an official's word.

Gabe · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2010, 10:31:30 AM »

Unless we get an official word telling us otherwise I don't see any reason not to play it as it's always been. That means that Pharisees and Sadducees in territory are not discarded when both High Priests Palace and Crown of Thorns are in play.

Bryon · « **Reply #22 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:37:07 PM »

Since HPP was designed to protect them from discard because of Crown of Thorns, I still rule my tournaments the way Gabe just described.

"Protect from discard" includes protection from discard by any means (discard special abilities, game rule after decrease special abilities, etc.).

"Protect from discard abilities" protects ONLY from discard by a discard special ability.

If the rules are changed to make protect ONLY protect from special abilities, then we'll have to revisit Enoch, too, right? Plus, I'll be sad that another card doesn't do what it was designed to do.

Korunks · « **Reply #23 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:40:19 PM »

Thank you Bryon, its nice to know that this still works.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2010, 01:32:38 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on April 12, 2010, 12:37:07 PM

Since HPP was designed to protect them from discard because of Crown of Thorns, I still rule my tournaments the way Gabe just described.

"Protect from discard" includes protection from discard by any means (discard special abilities, game rule after decrease special abilities, etc.).

"Protect from discard abilities" protects ONLY from discard by a discard special ability.

If the rules are changed to make protect ONLY protect from special abilities, then we'll have to revisit Enoch, too, right? Plus, I'll be sad that another card doesn't do what it was designed to do.

I agree with this conclusion. It makes protection easier to understand. Does this mean, however, that Protection of Angels will protect a hero in a battle determined BTN? I would think so, but I'm not sure.

Protection of Angels
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and protect all Heroes in play and set aside areas from evil cards until end of turn. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 91:11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

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Author Topic: Pharisees and Sadducees 101 (Read 7800 times)