Author Topic: Paul. Hidden treasures (Read 12033 times)

Lex1122 · « **on:** July 24, 2018, 01:06:40 PM »

I take a lone green prophet into battle. Let’s say Samuel. With that hidden treasures activates. Allowing me to play an enhancement. I play (not alone) n band to Paul (promo) he negates natural cards. Does he casscade negate (not alone)? Due to negating hidden treasures??

Ironisaac · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:10:58 PM »

All play abilities cannot be interrupted.
(Note: That does not mean that the card you play off of the play ability will be CBI, but the ability that allows you to play that card is CBI.)

The Guardian · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:15:30 PM »

Lex1122 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:15:40 PM »

Is not alone casscade negated by Paul?

Jeremystair · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:16:22 PM »

Paul negates Hidden Treasures he just can't negate the play ability. So this is how cascade works REG says " all of the negateable effects that can be traced back to the negated ability are cascade negated" and IMO not alone definitely fall under that.

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:18:13 PM »

Samuel negates play abilities though so you cant play of hidden treasures to begin with.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:19:33 PM »

Quote from: Cnakeeyes on July 24, 2018, 01:18:13 PM

Samuel negates play abilities though so you cant play of hidden treasures to begin with.

He was using cloud of witnesses Samuel

Ironisaac · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:19:46 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:16:22 PM

Paul negates Hidden Treasures he just can't negate the play ability.
So this is how cascade works REG says " all of the negateable effects that can be traced back to the negated ability are cascade negated" and IMO not alone definitely fall under that.

Not if you choose the play ability instead of the search and discard. choosing the play makes the whole card CBI essentially, as there are no other abilities. Not Alone still works.

Quote from: Cnakeeyes on July 24, 2018, 01:18:13 PM

Samuel negates play abilities though so you cant play of hidden treasures to begin with.

That's a good point though lol, better get another prophet to do this with!

Lex1122 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:20:04 PM »

Sorry Samuel cloud

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:21:03 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:19:33 PM

Quote from: Cnakeeyes on July 24, 2018, 01:18:13 PM
Samuel negates play abilities though so you cant play of hidden treasures to begin with.

He was using cloud of witnesses Samuel

ok, was just pointing out because he didn't say which.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:21:35 PM »

Why would the whole ability gain cannot be interrupted? What is stopping Paul from negating all of the other abilitys on the card?

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:30:03 PM »

Play abilities are Inherently CBI after the ability has happened. Paul is not trying to negate not alone he is trying to hit hidden treasures which has already played so is CBI

Ironisaac · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:33:38 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:21:35 PM

Why would the whole ability gain cannot be interrupted? What is stopping Paul from negating all of the other abilitys on the card?

There are no other abilities on the card. If there were, he would negate them.

The Guardian · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:34:26 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:16:22 PM

Paul negates Hidden Treasures he just can't negate the play ability. So this is how cascade works REG says " all of the negateable effects that can be traced back to the negated ability are cascade negated" and IMO not alone definitely fall under that.

In the case of Hidden Treasures there is no "negated ability" to trace back to because the play ability is CBI.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:40:03 PM »

What's stopping you from negating the trigger the playability has already happened. I'm just going by the logic from this thread that we had a week or so ago. http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/cascading-lol/

The Guardian · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:43:07 PM »

The trigger is not its own ability, it is part of the play ability.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:50:27 PM »

So here's another question if my opponent plays his Nebuchadnezzar goes and gets dream add's dream to battle draws 3 and plays unified language and bands in one of his other evil characters in his territory. I then negate the draw off of dream that also negates unified languages. Not the playing of unified languages just the ability on unified languages. Those abilities are all tied together are they not? This is basically the same scenario. Maybe this is not the way it's supposed to be but this is the way Cascade negate works as of now.

The Guardian · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:52:15 PM »

If Unif. Lang. was one of the cards drawn by Dream, it is cascade negated. If it was not drawn by Dream, it is not cascade negated.

Ironisaac · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:52:56 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:50:27 PM

So here's another question if my opponent plays his Nebuchadnezzar goes and gets dream add's dream to battle draws 3 and plays unified language and bands in one of his other evil characters in his territory. I then negate the draw off of dream that also negates unified languages. Not the playing of unified languages just the ability on unified languages. Those abilities are all tied together are they not? This is basically the same scenario. Maybe this is not the way it's supposed to be but this is the way Cascade negate works as of now.

What do you mean by "Tied together"?

Jeremystair · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2018, 01:57:05 PM »

As far as I'm concerned we've already had this discussion. A play a enhancementis an effect it is not an ability it is part of an ability.

http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/cascading-lol/

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2018, 02:01:01 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 01:57:05 PM

As far as I'm concerned we've already had this discussion.

http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/cascading-lol/

The scenario in that thread is different than this one. In that thread, being played by the play ability isn't what cascades the card. It's cascaded because it was drawn by a negated draw ability. In this thread's scenario, Not Alone just came from hand so there's nothing that would cascade it.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #21 on:** July 24, 2018, 02:28:10 PM »

Sorry Kevin I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. I do know that Hidden Treasures is a whole ability and the play the next enhancement is an effect of the ability. You can still negate the trigger even though the playability is already taken place. The playing of the enhancement cannot be interrupted but it can still be traced back to a loan green hero and that was negated so then not alone should be negated as well or we need to change the Cascade negate rules.

Reth · « **Reply #22 on:** July 24, 2018, 02:39:00 PM »

But if play abilities are CBI and Hidden Treasures is active when Samuel (RoA) enters battle he cannot negate that play ability since his negate activates after Hidden Treasures has been activated during earlier phase. Or does the HT play ability activates when hero enters battle and hence is prevented by Samuel (RoA)?

Ironisaac · « **Reply #23 on:** July 24, 2018, 02:41:54 PM »

Quote from: Reth on July 24, 2018, 02:39:00 PM

But if play abilities are CBI and Hidden Treasures is active when Samuel (RoA) enters battle he cannot negate that play ability since his negate activates after Hidden Treasures has been activated during earlier phase. Or does the HT play ability activates when hero enters battle and hence is prevented by Samuel (RoA)?

Sam (from ROA) would negate HT before it activates. but, we are talking about the CoW Samuel, who doesn't negate play abilities.

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #24 on:** July 24, 2018, 03:11:58 PM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 24, 2018, 02:28:10 PM

Sorry Kevin I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. I do know that Hidden Treasures is a whole ability and the play the next enhancement is an effect of the ability. You can still negate the trigger even though the playability is already taken place. The playing of the enhancement cannot be interrupted but it can still be traced back to a loan green hero and that was negated so then not alone should be negated as well or we need to change the Cascade negate rules.

Even if you could negate the trigger separately from the play ability (Which Guardian already told you you can't) that wouldn't cascade Not Alone. Cascade negate basically means is if you destroy the foundation of a building, the whole thing collapses. In this case, the first floor (the play ability) has external support beams (CBI) so even if you take away part of the foundation (trigger) the first floor can keep the second floor (Not Alone) from collapsing.

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Author Topic: Paul. Hidden treasures (Read 12033 times)