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It is an effect! It is a trigger effect. I'm just saying it can't be one way for one card and a total opposite way for another card just cuz that's the way we want it to work. See if you chose to do the third effect instead of the second one someone could play the three woes and negate that ability.

Hidden treasures has three effects that make up one ability.

Hidden treasures first Effect is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle," This is a trigger effect.

Hidden treasures second Effect is "you may play an Enhancement" This is a play effect

Hidden treasures third Effect is "or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck" This is a discard effect

REG Triggered Effect
An ability with a triggered effect has an effect that is waiting for event to occur be activated. A triggered effect always has a condition that is checking for an event to happen. Triggered effects may be ongoing or instant. When a card with an ability with a triggered effect is played, the condition activates and begins checking for the triggering event to happen, and the condition is triggered when the event happens.

Your quote above rests my case.  Look at this sentence from the REG that you quoted:

"A triggered effect always has a condition that is checking for an event to happen."

So when you say this:

"Hidden treasures first Effect is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle," This is a trigger effect."

...You should actually have said this:

"Hidden treasures' first part of its first ability is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle." This is a condition."

Hidden Treasures' Play ability is the "trigger effect".  It's the thing you get to do when the condition is met.  You can't negate conditions.  They don't do anything.  They are meaningless without another ability tied to them.  In this case, the condition is meaningless without the Play ability, which is the actual effect.

"Hidden treasures' first part of its first ability is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle." This is a condition."

It's not a condition itself. It is a trigger effect that is waiting for an event to happen aka looking for the conditions to be met. I guess technically speaking "you may" is the optional trigger. And there's no reason why you can't negate the "you may".

REG Conditional Phrases and Ability Classes
Each phrase that is checking the game state or for events is associated with one or more types of abilities:

• “If [event]” or “when [event]” is an ongoing check for that event to happen, and indicates a triggered effect.

REG Triggered Effect
An ability with a triggered effect has an effect that is waiting for event to occur be activated. A triggered effect always has a condition that is checking for an event to happen. Triggered effects may be ongoing or instant. When a card with an ability with a triggered effect is played, the condition activates and begins checking for the triggering event to happen, and the condition is triggered when the event happens.  Triggered effects may be optional or mandatory.

Optional triggered effects will be designated with a “may” or similar wording,

"Hidden treasures' first part of its first ability is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle." This is a condition."

It's not a condition itself. It is a trigger effect that is waiting for an event to happen aka looking for the conditions to be met. I guess technically speaking "you may" is the optional trigger. And there's no reason why you can't negate the "you may".

It is a condition. An effect has to have a target, and that has no target. The play and the discard are both triggered effects.

"Indicates" in that section is supposed to be about the effects that follow the condition, not the condition itself.

Quote from: Jeremystair on July 25, 2018, 02:53:58 PM

"Hidden treasures' first part of its first ability is "Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle." This is a condition."

It's not a condition itself. It is a trigger effect that is waiting for an event to happen aka looking for the conditions to be met. I guess technically speaking "you may" is the optional trigger. And there's no reason why you can't negate the "you may".

It is a condition. An effect has to have a target, and that has no target. The play and the discard are both triggered effects.

"Indicates" in that section is supposed to be about the effects that follow the condition, not the condition itself.

I am not seeing the distinction because all triggers have conditions. So not sure why both can't exist together.

You're right the first part is a condition but are you saying that conditions can't be negated it looks like they can because they're part of the ability.


REG Abilities
Abilities at least one  ability  or  modifier, and may  have  multiple abilities or An ability  is a set of sentences with connected  effects within a special  ability. The  effects may  be connected by  a  c ommon  target or set of targets, by  being  paired with a previous effect or by  an effect needing  information about the  target(s) of  a  previous  effect. An  ability targets the  cards its effects target . There  are  three  ways an  ability  can  activate its  effects: Triggered Effect. Immediate  Effect,  Activated Effect and An ability  may  have  effects that activate in different ways.  An ability  is only  instant if it only  has immediate instant effects, otherwise it is ongoing.  An ongoing  ability  is active  if it is checking  a condition or has a  currently  active  ongoing  effect. If  an instant ability  is prevented from activating, it  can never activate, even if the  prevent is later negated.  If  an ongoing  ability  is prevented,  and the prevent is later negated, the  ongoing  ab ility  activates  at that point.  If  an ongoing  ability  is negated and the negation ends before  the  ongoing  ability,  the ongoing  ability will  reactivate when the  next phase  begins.

An ability consists of one or more effects, and may have one or more conditions, options, or players to carry out some or all the effects. An option is represented by the word “may” and/or by a choice between two effects. If a player or players is mentioned in the ability, the effect is carried out by those players; otherwise the controller carries out the effect.

You can negate conditions (or at least that's what you interrupt in the Archer/ITB/ETB scenario). BUT, I think you can only negate a condition if you negate all of the dependent effects.

Negating an ability negates all effects of that ability, unless the negate specifies a type of effect it negates, in which case it only
negates the specified effects.

"Negate draw abilities" (or "negate play abilities") only negates the draw (or play) effect on Throne, not the condition or the other effect. The REG doesn't cover the other side, where you don't (or can't) negate one of the effects (such as "except banding"), which shouldn't negate the condition of an ability where one effect is negated.

Conditions are parts of abilities or modifiers - the condition on Humble is part of the modifier.

If you can negate the humbles “during battle” condition then you can have you cards CBP the entire time?

Thanks for pointing that out! That makes sense.