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That still doesn't explain why "you may" on an artifact is treated differently than "you may" on any other card.

It is solely because artifacts are a different type of card than other cards.

And that magically means they get unintuitive additions to commonplace terms? How exactly am I supposed to explain this to a new player?

"Yes Johnny, Alysha can convert your evil character anytime she wants to as long as it's in territory (even though the card doesn't say that)." "Sorry Johnny, despite having the exact same wording, you cannot draw from Reach of Desperation or band with High Priest Annas anytime you want because they are not artifacts." Highly irregular, extremely unintuitive, and thoroughly inconsistent.

Capture on an artifact means the same as on an enhancement or a character. Convert on an artifact means the same as on an enhancement or a character. All abilities that I can think of work exactly the same way if written on an artifact or an enhancement/character. Why are we making "you may" different?

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 18, 2011, 09:49:30 AM

It is solely because artifacts are a different type of card than other cards.

And that magically means they get unintuitive additions to commonplace terms?

Apparently so. Although I think by "unintuitive" you mean "unintuitive to you."  There are many differences between how artifacts get played compared to other cards. You have, however, learned to view those differences as normal, so they do not appear unintuitive to you. An example is provided below.

How exactly am I supposed to explain this to a new player?

Probably the same way you explain the them that at any time during prep or discard phase, they can place an artifact face down in their territory.

"Yes, Billy, because you have 9 cards in your hand you have to discard one. I know that last turn Jenny was allowed to take her card and put it face down on the table and not discard it, but that is because Jenny's card was an artifact, and yours isn't"

This is an example where artifacts play completely differently, yet you probably don't give it a second thought. I am not certain that the difference in triggering of optional SAs is really that much of an additional hurdle.

Why are we making "you may" different?

Because artifacts are different than character/enhancements, and that is how it has been ruled.

Don't get me wrong, browarod. I am a long time supporter of ruling this in precisely the way you are seeking. (Unfortunately, I believe this may be a case where STAMP and I agree so it has no chance of ever getting changed. ) I am not defending the ruling, but merely telling you what it is.

The SA activation requirements are exactly the same for characters and enhancements.

As you can see in the Interceding question thread, TC is it's own special niche.  Not that we have TC characters.

Again, I'm not arguing the rules for playing/placing cards. Please move past this so the discussion can actually proceed.

I am wondering why the words "you may" are supposed to be interpreted as "you may at anytime during the turn" on Holy Grail, but not any other card in the game. That is what I think is unintuitive and inconsistent. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's like I'm speaking a foreign language to you guys.....

I am wondering why the words "you may" are supposed to be interpreted as "you may at anytime during the turn" on Holy Grail, but not any other card in the game. That is what I think is unintuitive and inconsistent. Nothing more, nothing less.

Character and enhancement SAs are (generally) intended for battle only, whereas artifact SAs are (generally) active for the entire turn (and usually the round). The very intent of artifacts was for them to be available during more than just the Battle Phase. Therefore, it seems more intuitive that their abilities have an impact during more than just the Preparation Phase.

I don't see why Holy Grail is an exception just because it says "you may" when that is not what "you may" means on any other card.

Because Holy Grail isn't any other card. It is an artifact. 

Actually, the other examples you provided do. Stone Pillar and I am Holy both say "Upon activation, you may." If the default for "may" in artifacts was only when activated (like characters and enhancements), then there would be no need for the "Upon activation" clause. This would amount to "clarifying text." I would shudder to think that we were still using clarifying text in a Rock of Ages card.

I Am Creator (AW)
Type: Covenant • Brigade: Red • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: If you do not have a Hero in your territory, or set-aside area, then search draw pile for a Hero and put it in your territory. Cannot be interrupted. Limit once during each of your turns. • Play As: If you do not have a Hero in your territory, or set-aside area, then search draw pile for a Hero and place it in your territory. Cannot be interrupted. Limit once during each of your turns. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 1:1 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Common)

I do not see an upon activation clause here...and from the sound of it, sounds like its ongoing..why is it considered upon activation?

I Am Creator (AW)
Type: Covenant • Brigade: Red • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: If you do not have a Hero in your territory, or set-aside area, then search draw pile for a Hero and put it in your territory. Cannot be interrupted. Limit once during each of your turns. • Play As: If you do not have a Hero in your territory, or set-aside area, then search draw pile for a Hero and place it in your territory. Cannot be interrupted. Limit once during each of your turns. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 1:1 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Common)

I do not see an upon activation clause here...and from the sound of it, sounds like its ongoing..why is it considered upon activation?

Yeah I agree, but according to the answer given on this thread it doesn't have you may, therefore it is not optional. *instaposted*

However I would like to say that this game has gotten iunreasonably uber nitpicky on wordings that were arbitrary from the beginning. It seems that most of these kinds of these types of descisions are made in hindsight and not before, therefore I think we should give more leaway for what has to be to do x.

Quote from: STAMP on April 18, 2011, 03:06:20 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 18, 2011, 12:32:25 PM

(Unfortunately, I believe this may be a case where STAMP and I agree so it has no chance of ever getting changed. )

While ever so slight, you had a chance until you included those five capital letters that generally translate to "thorn in the flesh" for many here.

As I have noted on other occasions, I cannot think of a time where you and I have been in agreement on a disputed ruling where our side has prevailed.  We are new ruling kryptonite.

Can you two firmly agree that a placed enhancement is controlled by the placer?

It is added straight to battle.